Plot Hook Problems?

[the Jester]

I also want to ask the OP directly: If you were getting frustrated (and the players were too), why wouldn't you just give them an "out of character" nudge in the right direction? Why opt to have a bad session instead of just saying, "Look, guys, things aren't going the way I thought they would. It would help me out a lot if one of you would just translate those papers." You're all playing a game together; they'll help you out of a tight spot in order to get things going. Won't they?

D00d.

I would never do this as a dm, although I'll remind my group of things that they have forgotten.

As a player, DM nudges to stay on the tracks just make me want to derail the train more. Granted, I'm pretty reactive when it comes to attempts by the DM to dictate what I do, so I might be overreacting a bit, but DM 'suggestions' on how to further the 'plot' make me want to light the whole damn campaign on fire.

 

[Chzbro]

D00d.

I would never do this as a dm, although I'll remind my group of things that they have forgotten.

As a player, DM nudges to stay on the tracks just make me want to derail the train more. Granted, I'm pretty reactive when it comes to attempts by the DM to dictate what I do, so I might be overreacting a bit, but DM 'suggestions' on how to further the 'plot' make me want to light the whole damn campaign on fire.

I respect your opinion, but just to clarify, you're saying that as a DM you'd rather everyone have a bad time than ask the players to help you out? And you're saying that if you're playing and your DM asked you, as a friend, to help him out of a bind that you'd instead actively try to do the opposite?

You've already stated that you prefer a sandbox game to plot, but from what I can tell, the OP was definitely not running a sandbox game, nor were his players expecting one. In fact, when they ran the whole game free-form neither the DM nor the players were satisfied with the outcome. It's clear that the DM actively tried to find any solution that did not involve outright railroading (and even one that did to his mind), but none of it worked. I admit that at that point, rather than getting frustrated and giving up, I would have just asked them for a little help.

It's clear that you wouldn't have liked that and might even have tried to "light the campaign on fire," but since that's essentially what happened anyway I hardly see that as being a major risk.

I also suspect that what you wrote might be slightly hyperbolic since you said that you would remind players of things they might have forgotten, and that's exactly what my suggestion entailed (translating the papers with the Comprehend Languages ritual). I would like to think that people playing a cooperative game would be willing to cooperate to ensure that they all have fun rather than rigidly adhering to self-imposed rules to the extent that no one does.

 

[lin_fusan]

I would like to point out that (from a player's perspective) there was only one problem with the plot hooks. (I was a part of the game in question.) The DM asked us to create, not heros, but villins. He then asked for our motivations towards evil and our connections to the group (so we didn't stab each other in our sleep). The primary goals of our group were: Money. Murder. Kidnapping Dragonborn.

To me, this sounds like that the DM hasn't thrown down a plot hook that the players found interesting, which is money, murder, and kidnapping Dragonborn.

Out of the three, "kidnapping Dragonborn" is the most direct adventure seed available. Murder is simply a method, and money is the reward.

So to get the game "back on track", I think the OP needs to have a mission (if hired by an NPC) or an opportunity (if going solo) to kidnap some Dragonborn.

 

[Barastrondo]

Depends on what the players want to do with their time. I realize that sometimes it seems like a weaselly non-answer to say "It depends," but honestly, it depends. If some players are stressed out and fatigued during a weeknight game, a more obvious plot that comes up and knocks on their door is probably best. If they spend the time between games scheming and tabulating their ambitions, then it's best to ease off and not hit them with things that would distract them from what they want to do.

I'm not afraid to admit that I like to use player psychology when seeding hooks. If there's something I'm particularly interested in doing, even though I prefer not to mandate that players chase after that hook, I will certainly bait the hook with something tailored to what particular players and their characters are interested in. If everyone's interested in money, then that's fabulous treasure. Usually their wants are more diverse, though, so it may be a shot at revenge, a religious hook, a variety of things. The best plot hooks are those that you don't require the PCs to bite on for the game to advance -- but that are practically irresistible.