Winternight
First Post
How do you handle the plot killer?
I can't equip all my NPC with rings of mind shielding.
I can't equip all my NPC with rings of mind shielding.
Plot Killer: Detect evil
- Thread starter Winternight
- Start date
The secret is defining evil in your game. Detect evil is based on the degree of evil that is given off by a creature, if you modify this rule some based on what you as a DM define as evil (cold blooded murder, rape, slavery, worship of this or that god, being an outsider, etc.) you can control it some.
arwink
Clockwork Golem
I'm assuming that the problem here is that the PC's are using the spell as a short cut when in social adventures, short-cutting investigations or discovering that certain allies aren't all that they're cut up to be?
1) Society frowns on it - this is the easiest method. In a DnD society, people understand that things like evil intent can be detected via magic, but that doesn't mean that they're happy about it. If you've been a loyal member of the town guard/dukes council/local bakery for decades, then having some upstart adventurer detect you for evil is an affront to decency. Have NPC's be outraged and offended by people who casually detect without good reason, with society in general slowly starting to shun the PC's.
2) So what? The NPC is evil, but evil isn't created equal. People with a strong streak of selfishness and self-preservation will detect as evil, but you can't imprison them, attack them, or even be rude to them based on that information. Evil isn't evidence, and the nobility and the law should generally take a dim view of people who use that as the be all and end all of an arguement. Magic detection can be fooled, so knowing that the suspect is evil won't hold up in a court of law - you're still looking for evidence, you just have a bit more information to work from.
3) Possession. Ghosts and demons can both take over a good person, and leave them temporarily evil without changing their original alignment. Players can get confused beyond all belief when someone who reeked of evil yesterday is suddenly all rainbows and bunnies.
4) So what no. 2? He may be evil, but you still need to team up with him to complete your adventure. Evil people may just be to important for their alignment to be an issue (although the Players will hate you for it).
5) Essentially, this is a good tactic for PC's to use. It's smart play, and good use of divination to accomplish goals. You can't let all NPC's be mind shielded, but you can let them know that the party favors the use of the spell. Subtle manipulation and the use of neutral middle-men suddenly becomes key when dealing with the party in any way, shape or form.
1) Society frowns on it - this is the easiest method. In a DnD society, people understand that things like evil intent can be detected via magic, but that doesn't mean that they're happy about it. If you've been a loyal member of the town guard/dukes council/local bakery for decades, then having some upstart adventurer detect you for evil is an affront to decency. Have NPC's be outraged and offended by people who casually detect without good reason, with society in general slowly starting to shun the PC's.
2) So what? The NPC is evil, but evil isn't created equal. People with a strong streak of selfishness and self-preservation will detect as evil, but you can't imprison them, attack them, or even be rude to them based on that information. Evil isn't evidence, and the nobility and the law should generally take a dim view of people who use that as the be all and end all of an arguement. Magic detection can be fooled, so knowing that the suspect is evil won't hold up in a court of law - you're still looking for evidence, you just have a bit more information to work from.
3) Possession. Ghosts and demons can both take over a good person, and leave them temporarily evil without changing their original alignment. Players can get confused beyond all belief when someone who reeked of evil yesterday is suddenly all rainbows and bunnies.
4) So what no. 2? He may be evil, but you still need to team up with him to complete your adventure. Evil people may just be to important for their alignment to be an issue (although the Players will hate you for it).
5) Essentially, this is a good tactic for PC's to use. It's smart play, and good use of divination to accomplish goals. You can't let all NPC's be mind shielded, but you can let them know that the party favors the use of the spell. Subtle manipulation and the use of neutral middle-men suddenly becomes key when dealing with the party in any way, shape or form.
I've always ruled that Detect Evil does nothing to warn of the sinister intentions of mundane beings (humans, demi-humans, even humanoids). Rather, it detects the presence of demons, undead, possibly a warlock or priest whose magic abilities come from a demonic patron. I describe the distinction to my players as evil-vs-Evil. Evil (capital 'E') is supernatural evil, demonic evil, unnatural evil; however you might define it to make sense within your campaign. I've used it to throw players the occasional curveball, either with an "Exorcist"-type adventure in which a normal person is possessed by a demon (making that person "register" as Evil) or with a cunning villain able to conceal his nature, as you suggest. In the d20 Warcraft book, Paladins have the abilities Detect Undead and Detect Outsider instead of Detect Evil.
to add to my post some...
By defining evil you force the players to ask; what IS evil? They detect a taint of evil on some NPC, now it is up to them to find out what that taint is? This could be one or two items on your defined list, say following a cult or a S&M fetish. It also means that IF a player performs one of those actions he would have the taint of evil and need to seek redemption from the church.
By defining evil you force the players to ask; what IS evil? They detect a taint of evil on some NPC, now it is up to them to find out what that taint is? This could be one or two items on your defined list, say following a cult or a S&M fetish. It also means that IF a player performs one of those actions he would have the taint of evil and need to seek redemption from the church.
Agreed
I do this the same way--Detect/protection/holy word etc all treat normal people as "neutral". Only supernatural evil/law/chaos/good show up to these spell effects. Thus outsiders, evil clerics, undead, werewolves and other unnatural creatures (including most abominations) all are affected but simple, non-demon worshipping thief or murderer isn't. It de-powers these spells some but it seems like it's solved more problems than it's created.
-vox
Atridis said:
I do this the same way--Detect/protection/holy word etc all treat normal people as "neutral". Only supernatural evil/law/chaos/good show up to these spell effects. Thus outsiders, evil clerics, undead, werewolves and other unnatural creatures (including most abominations) all are affected but simple, non-demon worshipping thief or murderer isn't. It de-powers these spells some but it seems like it's solved more problems than it's created.
-vox
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Yes, IMC Detect Evil detects the [Evil] descriptor. All Undead have the [Evil] descriptor, as do all the monsters in the MM listed with it. Clerics of [Evil] gods -- IMC, there are no [Evil] gods, but there are Arch-Devils and Demon Princes which fill the niche -- also glow red.
Likewise with Detect Good. If your party lacks a Paladin or a certain kind of Cleric, you're safe. Detect Law will pick up Monks and Paladins (and some Clerics). Detect Chaos will pick up some Clerics.
Examples:
- Innocent human under the influence of Protection from Good: EVIL
- Human serial killer: NOT EVIL
- Human Blackguard: EVIL
- Innocent human posessed by a demon: EVIL
- NE human merchant: NOT EVIL
- LN Angel of Death: NOT EVIL
- CN Death Slaad: NOT EVIL
- Zombie: EVIL
- Innocent human who enjoys listening to Aqua: EVIL
-- Nifft
Likewise with Detect Good. If your party lacks a Paladin or a certain kind of Cleric, you're safe. Detect Law will pick up Monks and Paladins (and some Clerics). Detect Chaos will pick up some Clerics.
Examples:
- Innocent human under the influence of Protection from Good: EVIL
- Human serial killer: NOT EVIL
- Human Blackguard: EVIL
- Innocent human posessed by a demon: EVIL
- NE human merchant: NOT EVIL
- LN Angel of Death: NOT EVIL
- CN Death Slaad: NOT EVIL
- Zombie: EVIL
- Innocent human who enjoys listening to Aqua: EVIL
-- Nifft
The Blue Elf
First Post
Winternight said:
The only spell would do some good to counter Detect Evil is using would be Nondetection or Undetectable Alignment.
KnowTheToe
First Post
What level and world are you playing in? A DMG standard magic world has lots of magic and no baddie worth his salt would not have some type of magic hiding his evil intentions. Not when any stupid first level cleric can walk past him while scanning for evil and point him out.
