Pocketbooks - the next D&D evolution, ala "deckbuilding"

[Driddle]

The biggest drawback would be the gamer cultural shift -- we have, for years and years, been accustomed to some sense of communal sharing of our game book material. But the industry has proven its possible to shift away from that with card decks, dial-base figures and even dice themselves (although that particular product spin-off failed miserably). It is entirely feasible for a group of gamers to buy one ultra-rare "Gawd's Wrath" trading card and copy that information on an index card for everyone to use ... but it doesn't happen. Ditto with the Hero-clix format - it's possible to take those dials apart and insert your own numbers. Some folks do, just for funnsies, but you still see a huge demand for specific limited factory figures at outrageous prices.

A powerhouse like WotC *could* force a cultural shift in game book play as well, I think. It would require some savvy marketing, but heck, we've already proven we'll buy almost anything ... and then the same product again, just because it's got "v3.5" on the cover. It's just a matter of creative marketing, effort and luck.

 

[Sir Whiskers]

Tweak the rules to make book play more like card play. After all, you could just as easily copy some game information on an index card and play it in the standard Magic deck, but no one does that. Why? Darned if I know. Do the same thing with D&D - REQUIRE that a player has a particular set of rules in his possession before he do X action or take X class.

Cross-breed the products. Think outside the limits you're so familiar with.

From a marketing standpoint, you may be thinking "outside the box", but from a customer's standpoint, this is a non-starter. DnD is not so popular that WOTC can completely rework the entire paradigm of roleplaying games just to force players to fork over even more money for the rules.

Assuming this would be for a new rules-set: If this was done with the core rules, I'd never buy the system - 3.5 works fine. If it was only done with add-ons, I'd never get the add-ons (other companies can fill this void nicely). If WOTC eliminated the OGL at the same time - which eliminates the competition from d20 companies - then I don't bother with the new system at all.

CCG's work on a number of levels, but as a consumer, I have far too many better options than buying my RPG rules that way. Let me turn the question around on you: what could such a rules-set offer that would make purchasing it worthwhile to the consumer? What would make it so compelling, we'd be willing to put up with this?

 

[Driddle]

... Let me turn the question around on you: what could such a rules-set offer that would make purchasing it worthwhile to the consumer? What would make it so compelling, we'd be willing to put up with this?

(shrug) I'm still trying to figure out what makes a small piece of laminated paper worth $25 to make a deck more special. Or why a figurine of Spider-man with a yellow circle around its base would be priced differently than one with a blue circle (not that I follow that game closely enough to know for certain; it's just an example).

Obviously, this new product would not be standard D&D anymore. It would have to be called something else.

 

[JEL]

Card and war games are competative. RPGs (usually) are not. People pay the money for rare pieces in those games so they can win. Now, if you want to take out the DM, cooperative play, and most role playing elements in order to make D&D competative, then you might sell collectable rules, but likely not. Most of the people who'd want that kind of stuff are already playing Mage Knight and Warhammer.

 

[francisca]

Card and war games are competative. RPGs (usually) are not. People pay the money for rare pieces in those games so they can win. Now, if you want to take out the DM, cooperative play, and most role playing elements in order to make D&D competative, then you might sell collectable rules, but likely not. Most of the people who'd want that kind of stuff are already playing Mage Knight and Warhammer.

Exactly. And I think as Hasbro looks at the bottom line, that is where they are going to take D&D.

 

[Fiendish Dire Weasel]

In order to make them really collectable you would have to make it so you just bought "DnD Book, Set 1" and it would come in a brown cover/sleeve type thing and you wouldn't know what you were getting until you bought it and opened it up. I think all this would do is piss some people off and game store owners would just open the books up and sell them for $5 more so you know what you're actually getting. See, CCGs are about competition, you want the best deck, which somtimes requires rare cards, so you can win games and tournaments. This same idea applies to the "Clicky-Minis" games. It is both the spirit of competition as well as collectability that drives the markets for the rare cards/minis. RPGs are about teamwork and cooperation far more than competition (I'm sure some groups or players are competative, they're still working to advance the group though for the most party). On top of that some cards/minis are supposed to be better than others, it's about competition, so thats Ok. RPGs should be about balance, classes and races and other aspects are supposed to be fair, that way everyone can do thier part and have fun. There would still be the issue of colectability but just the nature of RPGs it wouldn't be a strong enough pull for this type of thing. I don't let you use my Magic cards because I want to be able to beat you, why would I not let you use my D&D collectable books, I want you to make a strong character for our D&D game.

WotC could release limited editions of D&D books, White Wolf did it, I know I have some nice fake-leather bound books with a nice slipcase and stuff for Revised Vampire and Mage, of which they make limited printings of. I don't think they could do some kind of collectable aspect to it, especially with random books or one version of s PrC being better than the other. I just don't think the idea would fly with the normal RPG crowd, I know I wouldn't buy them.

 

[Zappo]

Sound crazy?

Yep. Especially the part about a hardback book containing only one PrC.

 

[WayneLigon]

Didn't KoDT run a strip along these lines?

They did indeed.

 

[Corinth]

If WOTC eliminated the OGL at the same time - which eliminates the competition from d20 companies - then I don't bother with the new system at all.

This is not possible. The Open Game License cannot be revoked.

 

[Driddle]

RPGs are about teamwork and cooperation far more than competition ... RPGs should be about balance, classes and races and other aspects are supposed to be fair...

I just don't think the idea would fly with the normal RPG crowd, I know I wouldn't buy them.

You list what D&D RPGs are about now, and assumptions about how they should be played.

But times change. Society shifts this way and that on any particular issue. Interest groups spin off into new markets all the time.

Will this particular idea burst fully formed into success tomorrow? No. But I think it's got legitimate potential to make it some day.

OK, let's try looking at it from another angle. Rather than taking a game book as you're familiar with now and reducing it into separate units for collectable sales variations, drop to the other end of the scale and look at the complexity of current card systems or mini-clickies. Take that complexity up a notch or two: Instead of a figurine being self-contained, imagine a supra-ultra detailed figurine with so many gaming possibilities that it needs its own pamphlet for full description. Or a platinum-level game card that requires special markers to keep track of the various point-pools it brings into play. Or how about CCG based on a standard book-based RPG, sharing with it the same general back-story and campaign setting? ... Does any of this sound vaguely familiar? Could it happen? Darn straight.

I'm just saying that somewhere between the books and cards we have now is a middle ground just waiting to be developed and farmed for profit. A cross-over collectibles market of some sort or another.