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Point-buy or rolling? Your preference and why?
- Thread starter Henry
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Negative Zero
First Post
to me, it's all about having fun. what ever makes the GM AND the players happy, is what will work. cptg1481, i applaud you sir! what you said, is pretty much what i'd expect in that situation.
point buy seems to me to be for those afraid of getting low scores. so they'd rather have 4 average scores with no bonuses or penalties, 1 decent score, and 1 semi decent one. if that's your cup of tea, great. whatever floats your boat.
but, i don't play DnD to pretend to be average. no one makes movies or writes stories about average joe. even the guy who seems to come from a humble background, has something extraordinary going for him.
in fact, i'll wager that DnD is built on the presumption of a certain level of assumed power and min maxing. (did i mention i hate that expression?) the system expects you to be very good in a specific area, and your companions in other areas.
of course, all of this is just my opinion. but the bottom line is, if it's fun for your group, cool.
btw Eric, i agree totally on your law vs. chaos comment. i'm deffinitely chaotic then. everytime i read a comment about how someone hates the randomness of dice, i cringe. i keep thinking, why play RPGs then? maybe i'm the strange one.
~NegZ
point buy seems to me to be for those afraid of getting low scores. so they'd rather have 4 average scores with no bonuses or penalties, 1 decent score, and 1 semi decent one. if that's your cup of tea, great. whatever floats your boat.
but, i don't play DnD to pretend to be average. no one makes movies or writes stories about average joe. even the guy who seems to come from a humble background, has something extraordinary going for him.
in fact, i'll wager that DnD is built on the presumption of a certain level of assumed power and min maxing. (did i mention i hate that expression?) the system expects you to be very good in a specific area, and your companions in other areas.
of course, all of this is just my opinion. but the bottom line is, if it's fun for your group, cool.
btw Eric, i agree totally on your law vs. chaos comment. i'm deffinitely chaotic then. everytime i read a comment about how someone hates the randomness of dice, i cringe. i keep thinking, why play RPGs then? maybe i'm the strange one.
~NegZ
Desdichado
Hero
I have not observed that point-buy leads to boring, cookie-cutter characters. Then again, my players tend to have a concept in mind before they start doing stats.
I prefer a simpler method even than point-buy as presented, though -- I take the default ability array, let players assign as they please, and then let them take any 3 stat increases they want at character creation.
I don't prefer rolling HP either at levelling up. I don't like the potential for imbalance.
As for point-buy leading to "average" heroes -- that's the most bogus argument I can imagine. For one thing, you can always increase the amount of points to whatever level you want; secondly -- it'd have to be a really low point buy to give you straight 10s, which is the definition of an average score.
I prefer a simpler method even than point-buy as presented, though -- I take the default ability array, let players assign as they please, and then let them take any 3 stat increases they want at character creation.
I don't prefer rolling HP either at levelling up. I don't like the potential for imbalance.
As for point-buy leading to "average" heroes -- that's the most bogus argument I can imagine. For one thing, you can always increase the amount of points to whatever level you want; secondly -- it'd have to be a really low point buy to give you straight 10s, which is the definition of an average score.
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Negative Zero
First Post
Joshua Dyal said:
well, i must admit that the only experience i have with point buy is in the current game i play and that's with a 40 point buy. the most favourable stats you can hope for is one 18, a pair of 16s and 10s ... or something like that. i don't remember the specifics of it. anything lower than 40, based on my previous experience, seems like it'd result in a lot of average scores with some slightly above average ones.
i think the "cookie cutter" comments don't assume that all charcter concepts will be the same, but rather the scores will. with a point buy system, regardless of the stating figure, will likely lead to very similar numbers, just distributed/allocated differently. meaning the "high stat(s)" would be the same number, just put in different abilities. the fighter would take STR or CON, the wizard would chone INT, the rouge DEX and so on.
now you say, "doesn't everyone do that?" and i say, "sure!" but the difference is, not everyone would have the exact same score in their respective "main" ability. and while i may not have any specific numbers to support my feeling on the subject, i do not believe that an 18 in STR for a fighter is balanced with an 18 in WIS for a cleric. so the balance argument is, for me, moot. (at least in the way that i understand it.)
~NegZ
[EDIT]
i suppose i should mention that our rolling method is very generous. roll 4d6 dropping lowest 8 times and drop the lowest two scores, rerolling 1s. (there are lots of reasons this is necessary, not the least of which is the world is very dangerous, and there are no clerics!)
Coik said:
hey, the laws jsut happen to be more vocal. don't sweat it
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Ahrimon
Bourbon and Dice
My group has always used the 4d6-L roll one set and if you don't like it you can roll a second set, but that's the one you have to use.
It never fails that certain players always have better scores than others. I don't scrutinize every roll they make because I trust them. But the difference in power always seems apparent to me during play. Of course that view could be skewed by the fact that some of the better characters invariably belong to the power gamer fighter type.
That said, I have given great thought to using the point buy system. And as a testament to those boring days of work, I threw together a quick program to calculate the average point costs using the dice methods. Each average was calculated by rolling 100,000 ability score sets.
Points Method
-------- ---------
18.6 3d6
23.3 3d6 7 times -Lowest score
33.6 4d6-Lowest
39.0 4d6-Lowest, 7 times -Lowest score
My campaign is just about to wrap up so I think my next one will use a 33 point buy. It might take me a while to get them to accept it, but I think it will be for the best.
Ahrimon
It never fails that certain players always have better scores than others. I don't scrutinize every roll they make because I trust them. But the difference in power always seems apparent to me during play. Of course that view could be skewed by the fact that some of the better characters invariably belong to the power gamer fighter type.
That said, I have given great thought to using the point buy system. And as a testament to those boring days of work, I threw together a quick program to calculate the average point costs using the dice methods. Each average was calculated by rolling 100,000 ability score sets.
Points Method
-------- ---------
18.6 3d6
23.3 3d6 7 times -Lowest score
33.6 4d6-Lowest
39.0 4d6-Lowest, 7 times -Lowest score
My campaign is just about to wrap up so I think my next one will use a 33 point buy. It might take me a while to get them to accept it, but I think it will be for the best.
Ahrimon
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KDLadage
Explorer
...this conversation comes up a lot...
...and I enjoy it more each time...
My prefered method of stat generation is playing cards. It is a rather elegant thing, really. It generates ballanced characters, creates non-cookie cutter stats and allows for some real personalization.
Currently my Player Character Stat Generation Deck is made up of the following cards:
1s ... x1
2s ... x2
3s ... x3
4s ... x6
5s ... x3
6s ... x2
7s ... x1
(edit: seemed off; checked my deck and corrected)
This is 18 cards, allows for a minimum stat of 5, and a maximum stat of 19. On average, the character's stats will be 12.
I have the players shuffle the deck of cards, deal them face down into six piles of three cards each. They are then allowed to pick up a single stack, look at the results and assign that value to any stat. They then pick up a second one and assign that to another stat. Since they know the card mix, they know what cards remain at all times and so use this to decide where to set the stats...
...and I enjoy it more each time...
My prefered method of stat generation is playing cards. It is a rather elegant thing, really. It generates ballanced characters, creates non-cookie cutter stats and allows for some real personalization.
Currently my Player Character Stat Generation Deck is made up of the following cards:
1s ... x1
2s ... x2
3s ... x3
4s ... x6
5s ... x3
6s ... x2
7s ... x1
(edit: seemed off; checked my deck and corrected)
This is 18 cards, allows for a minimum stat of 5, and a maximum stat of 19. On average, the character's stats will be 12.
I have the players shuffle the deck of cards, deal them face down into six piles of three cards each. They are then allowed to pick up a single stack, look at the results and assign that value to any stat. They then pick up a second one and assign that to another stat. Since they know the card mix, they know what cards remain at all times and so use this to decide where to set the stats...
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Negative Zero
First Post
the problem with usingthe word "average" in refernce to dice, is that you very rarely get "average" results. sure, if you take ALL the character's you've ever rolled, and run the average of all the numbers then sure, you'll likely find the correct averages. but when you're rolling a six-sider, there are equal odds that any one side will come up. so averages are really irrelavant. the only thing that counts is what you get this time!
~NegZ
~NegZ
