D&D 5E Point buy vs roll

[Blue]

Maybe it's the people I game with, but we usually roll at home with nobody watching, and the numbers aren't unexpected or suspicous?

Before you were talking about aggregate, and here you are ignoring it - real rolls would occasionally have unexpected and/or suspicious.

How often does someone have a max 14 before racials? Two 17s or 18s before racials? If you're not seeing that over time, then you aren't seeing honest roles.

 

[Blue]

I understand the argument, but it is an abstract matter of theory for me. It has never come up on the ground for direct observation, though I could suppose it could and indeed must, again in theory, with the right circumstances.

Great. As already established, your personal observation of this does not change the math that it happens. Please don't revisit already established parts of this, you're just going in circles.

 

[Blue]

The difference is real, but in play not overwhelmingly so. Good and bad rolls at the table still account for more either way

Again, before you talked about the aggregate. I assume you know what that means. And therefore I can't beleive that you are putting forth that over a campaign's worth of rolls that d20+X averages the same as d20+X+2. Unlike the few rolls for ability scores for a party, the number of rolls for a campaign will absolutely have a statistically sufficient number of rolls to have a higher average for someone who has a higher mod.

You know math, it's a great way to double check your arguments before posting them.

 

[Scruffy nerf herder]

It's surprising how many more people use point buy than rolling.

 

[Maxperson]

Can you claim that many if not the majority of players would be annoyed if the other players all received a rare weapon or implement for a +2 over them and they never did? Because that's the same as a 14 to 18.

Not really. Magic items are something all players expect to receive, so if one player got a magic item and no one else did, that's cause for hard feelings. Now I will say that in my experience one person having a +4 sword, someone else having a +2 sword of fire, and a third person having a ring of regeneration are all pretty much equivalent. I've never seen someone complain that the other player had +2 or +4 more on his weapon.

 

[Parmandur]

It's surprising how many more people use point buy than rolling.

Given the sample size, I'd take any results with a Boulder of salt.

 

[Parmandur]

Great. As already established, your personal observation of this does not change the math that it happens. Please don't revisit already established parts of this, you're just going in circles.

I'm not assuming my experience is universal, which is why the standard rules providing various options for different tables is wise for the game over all.

I just get bused when the online discourse assumes that everyone uses point buy because of all the problems with rolling, when that is not a universal experience either.

 

[Smackpixi]

Only 15% for other, which would include the standard array…can’t help but wonder if it would be more common if topic didn’t kind of exclude it.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Only 15% for other, which would include the standard array…can’t help but wonder if it would be more common if topic didn’t kind of exclude it.

I generally view Standard Array as a subset of point buy.

 

[MNblockhead]

We see this debate a lot, but here's one thing that I've been curious about:

If you prefer random results, do you usually then base your character on the randomness? That is, you don't really have any preconceived notions of what you'll be playing? No judgment, I'm honestly just curious.

For me, I prefer the point buy because I usually have a fully fleshed out concept before even sitting down at the table, and if it's going to be a long-term heavy RP campaign I'll even have a page or two of backstory. I also DM 80% of the time, so there's probably some part of me that doesn't like giving up total control.

Yep, that really the only reason to roll for stats in my opinion.

Another thing I've done is do a Dungeon Craw Classics session zero funnel game where each player rolls up four level-0 characters. Of those that survive, players choose which to play and dedicate to a class.

But most of the time players are interested in playing a certain character concept and the group wants a somewhat balanced party. For that I find point-buy is best.