Point Buy

[silentspace]

I never used point buy until I started with PbP games here on Enworld. I'm finding that point buy creates somewhat weak characters, especially in relation to most NPCs published in adventures and what-not, even when using the 32 point buy "High Powered" option.

When you compare the 32 point buy "High Powered" option vs the random roll "High Powered" option (5d6 drop two lowest), it seems that the random rolls will almost always come out on top.

Or is it that the ability to customize your stats makes up for the randomness of the roll?

What are your thoughts? In one game I'm in here the DM gave us 40 point buy, saying that it most closely approximates the 4d6 drop lowest method. Is that right?

 

[DaveStebbins]

What are your thoughts? In one game I'm in here the DM gave us 40 point buy, saying that it most closely approximates the 4d6 drop lowest method. Is that right?

Not sure why he's saying that. 4d6-L has an average roll of 12.24, which can be met with a 25 point buy. Higher point buys allow you more numbers towards the upper end of the scale, and have the potential to boost the average score above 4d6-L.

Point buy is popular because it allows customization and because it is fair (it prevents the effects of someone rolling exceptionally well or exceptionally poorly). Many groups find this to be more important than the excitement of rolling the dice to get your starting numbers. In some groups, it is used to avoid potential cheating if character creation rolls are not made at the table.

I guess I haven't noticed point buy characters being weaker than NPCs.

 

[Zappo]

I haven't run the math, but 4d6 drop low creates characters that are generally worth between 30 and 40 point buy points. It is true that the average is 12.something and you can match that with point buy - however, the cost of stats for point buy isn't linear. A high stat is worth a lot of points.

However, the freedom to assign points compensates for that difference. Of those 30-40 points, a lot are "wasted" in odd stats, stats that don't quite match your concept, and values that have to be placed in suboptimal characteristics. For this reason, generally speaking, 25 point buy characters are just as powerful as 4d6 drop low characters (or the difference is too low to be noticed).

 

[jerichothebard]

well, yeah, but 4d6-L results in a much wider spread of possible characters. I recently rolled up a character with that method, that was equivilant to a 52 point character. And that counts the 4 I rolled in one stat.

I really like the point buy, especially if you have players not afraid to go for a wide spread and take a penalty in one or two stats. I find it gives a lot of sense of ownership to the character.


jtb

 

[Galethorn]

Yeah, I've also found that 4d6-L (as you people seem to call it--I guess I'll start using it now) tends to usually produce a powerful group...after all, if one person rolls two 18s, and the rest are 14 or higher, and another person rolls two 3s, and their highest stat is a 13, then most [Nice] DMs are going to let the person with the terrible stats improve them, rather than bumping down the person with good stats. Anyway, I like pointbuy because then I don't have to count the PCs as three levels higher to give them proper challenges.

 

[Ryltar]

I absolutely despise point buy character generation. IMO, it generates characters that tend to have more "balanced out" stats than those just rolling the dice, which makes for a more "realistic" generation method: each character has strenghths and weaknesses, and has to build upon them regarding the choice of race and class. With PB, players nearly always use their points to greatest effect - with dice rolls, this is somewhat limited. Oh, well ... one could argue that this is rather the players' fault than the method's ...

One way or the other, I'm not gonna allow PB in any of my campaigns anytime soon.

 

[DaveStebbins]

I am aware of the spread you get with 4d6-L.

With 3d6, an 18 happens as frequently as a 3 (avg roll = 10.5).

With 4d6-L an 18 comes up as frequently as a 6 (avg roll = 12.24).

With 5d6-2L, an 18 comes up almost as often as a 9 (3.5% vs 3.8%, avg roll = 13.43)

Perhaps it is the phenomenom that Ryltar mentions, being able to use all your points/stats to greatest effect, which explains why point buy gives lower point characters than rolling. Being able to customize exactly the way you want balances out slightly lower numbers.

 

[diaglo]

3d6 rolled six times in order of abilities rolled by the referee is the only non munchkin stat generation method.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

3d6 rolled six times in order of abilities rolled by the referee is the only non munchkin stat generation method.

We played a game like that once.

Once.

"Hardcore" character generation, espcially in 1e where you also had to roll your 1st level hit points, is just brutal. Small wonder 1e players consider themselves great roleplayers, they keep having to play new roles after all thier characters die!

 

[Ibram]

I've used both systems, and from both a player and dm pov I prefer points buy.

as a player it helps me create the character I want, without worring about dumping another important stat to low. as a dm it helps me when i'm creating NPC's (I generaly use lower points for shmuck troops, equal amount for most important NPC's and a greater amount if i want to create something realy challenging).