Poisons for GOOD!

[Felix]

Ok. My character is the woodsie type, and he's into the whole herbal remedy thing. Kinda has to be since he's forsaken magic healing. So he's been dabbling in poisons.

From what I hear, the BoVD had a nice big ol section outlying what kinds of poisons and refined drugs there are out there, and most of them were nasty. Also, the use of these kinds of poisons are generally considered EEEEvil. And if you use a Con-draining poison like Deathblade, well, forget about it.

So I want to stay Good. I also want to be able to use my nature knowledge to assist with the disabling/killing bad guys thing.

Then we come upon the problem of getting the poison into the vict- I mean, bad guy. Is there anyway to forge a weapon so that a hit will automatically inject a dose of poison? Like a well of poison in the hilt? What is the chance for getting poisoned as you apply it to a blade?

Besides all that, what are some Good uses of poisons? I was thinking that paralyzing poisons (Str and Dex drain) wouldn't be all that bad - all they do is render the person helpless; the alignment question would come when you decide what to do with them. Con poisons are right out. Poisons causing unconsiousness (Int, Wis, and Cha drain) are similar to the paralyzing types, but you remove the target's ability to mentally function; would that be "better" or "worse" that paralisys?

Any ideas on how poisons can now be used for Good? What method of employment would be acceptable to you guys?

 

[Vaxalon]

IMC, you have to be very, very careful with poison.

First of all, any strength or dexterity damaging poison, when it runs out of its targeted statistic, starts damaging constitution.

Second of all, any intelligence, wisdom, or charisma draining poison does so by inducing various forms of insanity.

Both of these are quite dangerous.

One of the nastiest tricks I ever play on PC's is to have a small child get into their things when they're not looking. Weapons are usually too big to hurt themselves with, and most magic items require command words and the like before they become harmful... but if a kid gets into the poison...

Tragedy.

 

[Felix]

First of all, any strength or dexterity damaging poison, when it runs out of its targeted statistic, starts damaging constitution.

Is this a house rule? If so, it's pretty cool.

What's your view on poisons that don't do ability damage - Blue Whinnis for example. It just puts folks to sleep.

Tragedy.

That it would be indeed, and the family will blame the PC for such a loss. But would that reflect upon the PC's alignment?

And I'm using the word "poison" in its broad sense; alcohol is a poison. As is advil. While I do want suggestions on how to thwack the enemy boss with poisons, how could I help my party by using poisons?

 

[Sejs]

First of all, any strength or dexterity damaging poison, when it runs out of its targeted statistic, starts damaging constitution.

I like that. I like that alot. It makes non-con dmg poisons actually deadly, instead of just an inconvienance. I can't seem to find a refrence to that in the dmg bit on poison or ability damage. Could you point me to a page where I could find that to show to my group, please?

 

[MerakSpielman]

The D&D books say using poison is always evil.

Most players seem to think that's pretty narrow-minded. After all, if you're trying to kill the bad guy anyway, does it really matter that much how he ends up dead? If it was a sword to the neck, a fireball spell, a rogue's sneak attack, or poison, he's still just as dead. Saying using poisons is evil is like saying killing people one way is "good," and other ways are "evil." It's still killing, folks. The reason for the killing is what makes it good or evil.

The BoVD has lots of good poisons, yes. Most (but not all) are descriptions of poisons that can be extracted from standard MM creatures by skilled alchemists. There are rules for the distilling of useful poisons from the poison glands you might get off of certain monsters. That's right - no more squeezing poison from the giant scorpion into a vial and just using it to coat blades. There's good descriptions for why that doesn't work in the BoVD. First, the poison is generally prepared by the bug on a dose-by-dose basis. There is no "resevoir" of poison in the stinger. The glands make it when they need to, not before. The poison gland by itself is not full of raw poison. Second, biological poison lasts very little time in the open air. Just rubbing scorpion poison on a blade would only make it poisonous for maybe an hour.

There are also some really grotesque dieseases in the BoVD - like Blue Guts, which you might get if you are so stupid as to try to eat part of an Otyugh. Inflicting disease is probably usually evil, since it might spread beyond the scope of the evil creatures you want to kill.

There are also rules for drugs and addictions. Some of the drugs have really nice perks - until you get hooked. Forcing someone to OD on a drug works much like poison, sometimes killing the subject. Would it be evil to addict the evil archenemy to a drug that only you, the good character, can provide? Might you not use the addiction to lead them into a life of good, where they will get their "fix" more often?

Evil and Good are difficult concepts to apply to drugs, disease, and poison. You might need to talk to your DM before making any choices, to see where they fall in his universe's morality scale.

 

[Ghostwind]

If you want poisons, you should really take a look at Pale Designs: A Poisoner's Handbook from Bastion Press. It is much more comprehensive than any other d20 book and gives you options that will allow the use of some poisons without lethal effects.

 

[Alchemist]

The rogue/Psywar IMC uses poisons, particularly incapacitaing ones that drain str, dex or cause sleep, paralysis, etc. as part of his bounty-hunting "Bring em' in alive, 'cause they're worth more" mindset. If he can pepper the guy with poisons to bring him down faster and safer, he's all for it.

I don't see how that's more evil than hacking people to bits. Talk to your DM. I like the tack he's taking with the character, so I'm all for it and encourage this behavior. It just makes sense. The police pepper spray people on a regular basis. Why can't the characters?

 

[Zappo]

I don't agree with the concept of poisons being automatically evil. They are just yet another way to kill someone, albeit a sneaky and painful way. Not a paladin's tool, but neither intrinsically Evil.

In the case of poisons that can't kill but only debilitate - those that damage Strength or Dexterity, and those that cause sleep or paralysis or similar - if they don't do permanent damage, I see them as a relatively "good" weapon (as far as weapons go). A bit like plastic bullets, you know.

 

[mkletch]

I don't agree with the concept of poisons being automatically evil. They are just yet another way to kill someone, albeit a sneaky and painful way. Not a paladin's tool, but neither intrinsically Evil.

So your jungle tribesman (who happens to be a paladin) cannot use poison on his blowgun darts when he hunts monkeys, like the rest of his tribe? If he can, why not to defend his tribe, or the shrine to his deity? If those, then why not for self defense, or anyplace else where he could kill something (i.e. just about any adventure).

"Poison = evil" is just as silly as the "stealing = evil" bit.

-Fletch!

 

[Chauzu]

I guess that means all them little Wild Dwarves and tribals hunting with their poison are evil!