Political Topics in a campaign

[Gulla]

And the award for perpetuation of invidious stereotypes and blaming of victims for getting murdered by bigots goes to....

I didn't read any placing of blame in the post, just an explanaition of the motivation/excuse for the behaviour. Most evil acts are not seen as evil (or at least as excusable and/or nescesary) by the people doing it.

That might also be a good political issue/plot. In a nation with conflicts running along racial lines brutal methods might "solve" (that is remove) the problem:

A mainly human-dominated nation has a strong conflict between elves wanting to protect the forrest and deliver "beauty and song" and dwarves using the forest for coal and mine-support delivering gold and jewelry. The conflict results in none of them delivering anything, and the resource situation is such that only one of them can deliver. Killing off _all_ of one of the races will end the conflict, and ensure delivery of the goods from the other race.

So, why not have one opponent suggest killing off the dwarves to perserve beauty, song and the forrests. All the noble reasons, none of the noble methods

Håkon

 

[Pielorinho]

And the award for perpetuation of invidious stereotypes and blaming of victims for getting murdered by bigots goes to....

Moderator's Note
If you think there are historical inaccuracies, you're welcome to discuss them: I'll ask (but not demand) that you do so with at least as much specificity as the post to which you're responding; I ask that because I don't think there are historical inaccuracies.

Please don't turn it into a political discussion, though.

Daniel

 

[Peni Griffin]

No, dear, the blame for an action goes to the person who does the action. Although you bring out the point that many negative stereotypes about groups of people are reinforced by behavior forced on those groups of people by the artificial limitations of their circumstances. Usury (the loaning of money at interest) was forbidden to Christians, and many forms of employment were legally forbidden to Jews; hence, Jews became bankers. Money is power in a cash economy, and Jews had no other direct source of power, so naturally the bankers exercised it when they could. Who wouldn't? It's precisely the same principle as the femme fatale, whose public image is also historically a negative one. Using money and sex to manipulate others were frowned on, not because these are intrinsically bad behaviors, but because these behaviors undermined the "natural" authority of those who had all the power. Using military force to compel others to do what you want, now - that was legitimate and good and right, because the people in power said so. (And if you think these self-serving moral distinctions vanished with the advent of democracy, well - whatever helps you sleep at night.)

Oppressors also project their own sins onto oppressed groups; cf the (American historical) lynching of black men for the "crime" of miscegenation by the very demographic (white males) that routinely sexually exploited black women. If you want violent conflict, there's a principle you can bring to bear with devastating effect.

History is always the best source material, but as in the above case may hit too close to home for your players. For fictional examples of making plots out of politics in ways that won't automatically rile people up, try Alexander Dumas pére (ah, the classics!) and Lois McMaster Bujold, both the Vorkosigan space operas and the wondrously complex theological thrillers, Curse of Chalion, Paladin of Souls, and Hallowed Hunt. The second set is particularly inspiring if you have a devout group, as it demonstrates how gods can get involved in your story without mucking it up irrevocably.

 

[Umbran]

(And if you think these self-serving moral distinctions vanished with the advent of democracy, well - whatever helps you sleep at night.)

Please don't make this a political discussion. Discussion of historical fact may be appropriate, but extending that into comment on current politics isn't appropriate. Getting in people's faces about it when they do misstep is also not appropriate - we have a "report a post" function for when you feel something is over the line.

If you've got some confusion about this, please feel free to e-mail one of the moderators - our addresses are in a post stickied to the top of the Meta Forum.

 

[Halivar]

Yikes. As a rule of thumb, when you think you may have inadvertently offended someone... just drop it. It's always the safe bet.

 

[Emirikol]

One of my PCs is running for public office and I'm trying to figure out what common issues the people in a midevil society would have. I've already got a good list of things including increased military and decrease in taxes, what type of issues do the citizens in your campaign think about?

Don:

I wouldn't think they'd have to be too different from today's issues. Without getting into current politics, everybody has a take on current events. The populist vote (what the people want) would be considered "where the PC's" would probably end up fighting for.

You could have celebrities getting special treatment, unpopular wars, terrorists & "freedom fighters", floods of refugees/immigrants, war profiteers, sabateurs, unemployment (in Feudal times would mean not enough growth in the fields and idle hands..liek in New World), lack of people signing up for the military, merchant monopolies resulting in people not being able to pay their taxes (and resulting in lost houses, debtors prisons..or if left out of prison..rampant crime), exhausted natural resources and polution, poor sanitation/disease (but too expensive to fix), etc.

jh

..

 

[S'mon]

I do not in fact feel that I did any of that, but let she who has never misread a post on a sensitive topic cast the first stone. I could, after all, have started a flamewar or complained to a moderator at the implication that I was an antiSemite, but chose not to.
.

On ENW it's best to 'complain to a moderator' - ie hit the 'report post' button. I nearly did it myself when I saw that post (attacking you). Neither personal attacks nor political discussion are allowed on ENW and it's best to nip it in the bud.

 

[S'mon]

Re political issues - there aren't many democracies IMC, usually if there are it's city states and the electorate are landholders - possibly male only, but certainly not everyone over 18 like we have today. Issues include taxation (esp property taxes!), civic infrastructure (walls, sewers), and foreign relations/defence.

 

[tzor]

Consider the following: In any political environment the major “topics” that a politician must consider are those issues that have been brought to him by lobbyists. So who or what would the medieval equivalent of lobbyists be?

Merchant guilds: There will be plenty of guilds that will be lobbying for the attention of the politician. Matters of trade, tariff, and even exclusive rights will always be one of their “top” priorities. The guilds will rarely speak with one voice. The vintner’s guild will complain about the high prices levied by the cooper’s guild, and the Tavernier’s guild will complain about the high prices levied by the vintner’s guild.

Nobles: There will also be plenty on the minds of the nobles. Medieval law often reserved exclusive signs of rank to nobility, such as the wearing of furs and other signs that placed them above the common folk. The trappings of knighthood would also be something that the nobles would want a monopoly on. (People forget that one of the biggest trappings of knighthood were “spurs,” because knighthood was a form of armored cavalry.)

Clergy: The goals of the clergy are similar to that of the nobles, but they also have their own form of government. Medieval government worked on the notion of “fonts” of justice. This means there are multiple overlapping jurisdictions and they often don’t see eye to eye on every issue.

Foreign dignitaries: In the medieval mindset, even the neighboring town was “foreign” and tows frequently went to war with each other. While merchants want the best trade route, towns want to make sure that the best trade route includes them. There will also be treaties of convenience, mostly for the trade of necessary goods between towns.

Adventurers: While not exactly a “medieval” group will be a part of the setting. They too will have plenty to petition local officials for, especially when other groups are advocating things that are against them. (Like the noble’s attempt to ban heavy armor inside the tow walls to all non native nobles or to require peace bonding on all weapons.)

 

[Pielorinho]

Moderator's Notes:

Perhaps the two moderator's warnings so far have not been clear. The next person who continues the discussion involving modern politics OR personal insults OR disputing the moderator rulings will face a temporary ban from the site. This is an interesting thread, and I may be going against my better judgment by leaving it open.

As always (and this goes for the person whose post I just deleted), if you have an issue with moderation, feel free to email us. DO NOT feel free to dispute it in the thread.