Politics of a Lawful Good Church

[The Amazing Dingo]

I'm here working on some sects within a Lawful Good church. There are plenty of ideas floating around in my head about possible specialties (i.e. - Undead Hunters, Demon Hunters, Healers, an Inquisition sect, etc.) but I was wondering what type of politics other DM's have employed for their churches. This of course can extend beyond the LG church (I'm working on a few hooks to go with other more chaotic churches).

Just wondering. Thanks!

 

[dead]

Check out the 2E product, "Bastion of Faith" by Bruce Cordell.

It's very good. It details the Lawful Good church of Heironeous (of the GH pantheon) but the ideas in there can be imported to other settings.

Basically the church hierachy is broken down into three sections.

You've got:

1) Priests (and there are various rankings but I can't remember)
2) Cachatists (I'm not sure of the spelling, but these are the wizards that work for the church)
3) Inquisitors (the Inquisitors take up the Rogue class).

But the book also has a great map of a church. Very well protected. A kind of militant building that might have it's own fief surrounding it. I use it in my game as the Basilica of Pelor in the Kingdom of Keoland.

 

[Stormborn]

A lawful good church could have many different kinds of organizations

1. The most obvious: one ultimate leader with lesser authorities down from there to the local level. High Cardinal, Cardinal, High Bishop, Bishop, Priest for example. People within it vie for position or favor with higher ups.

2. A council of equal leaders which then distribute authority from there. Much like the above w. one level removed from the top. The various leaders, all of equal spiritual power, may not be of equal temporal power and might carry out cold or not so cold conflicts.

3. A more democratic system that elects representatives from a local congregation that then makes up regional and national committees that in turn validate church policy and ordain ministers. Here ministers might have to be part poiltician, or at least bow to the whims of nonclergy more so than others. If, however, once a minister is ordained he or she cannot be defrocked w/o extreme circumstances, then you have the possibility of rogues or infighting among spiritula authorities.

4. A religion where the faith is organized around a set of absolute principles, but is very loose in structure on the large scale, with the activities of each region beign the province of local centers of worship and study that may have little or no connection with each other. Politics will all be local in this case, although regional issues and the direction of the faith as a whole can come into play. Especially if there are wandering prophets who stir up the people.

These are all real world examples, but I don't want to give the refrences here as they are broad generalizations and I have no desire to offend with generalities(or violate board policy).

You may also wish to consider the relationship of a Lawful religion to the state. Are they seperate? Does one validate the other? Are they the same thing? Do they hate each other or what?

 

[Raven Crowking]

Removed by author.

 

[smetzger]

I'm here working on some sects within a Lawful Good church. There are plenty of ideas floating around in my head about possible specialties (i.e. - Undead Hunters, Demon Hunters, Healers, an Inquisition sect, etc.) but I was wondering what type of politics other DM's have employed for their churches. This of course can extend beyond the LG church (I'm working on a few hooks to go with other more chaotic churches).

The relative importance of certain rituals and holidays.
Who the more important saints are.
Whether you should be LAWFUL good or lawful GOOD.

 

[The Amazing Dingo]

Thanks everyone for the input, I do appreciate it!

Storm, I would have to likely shy away from the latter two ideas. When I think Lawful, I think very well structured with definate tiers and a well-defined power structure. Such places put a great deal of emphasis on stability and tradition (second only to a LN people/place). Nonetheless, I am definately working on some cold conflicts. I do admit that I am having a hard time creating a heretical situation in a setting where Commune is a part of church life and answers can be easily attained concerning the truth.

Raven, never heard of it but I will certainly look into it. Thank you!

*sauters off to Ebay*

Smetzger, I'm on step with you there. I'm working up saints and such (and doing some research on some lesser known saints in Christianity to examples and stories). I havea couple of rituals in mind, though nothing down on paper quite yet.

I also want to get a couple of the large churches in the area down since the PC (a solo game) is a Paladin/Annoited Knight and it will definately play a large role in that. I have a few ideas floating around - a church with a special little girl/boy who looks at the sun through the stained glass window and sometimes finds himself speaking of the future, etc. I have nothing long term for this idea, but I find good little bits of flavor are the best.

As I mentioned before though, I am having a difficult time with a heresy. I had pondered having a certain sect being on the verge of being excommunicated but don't feel like any of my ideas are very solid yet. I know P-kitty and Sepulchrave have done a great job with this so I know it can be done...just...how...

Thanks for anymore help!

PS - I've been up 48 hours now and am about to drive home to a nice warm bed (for 6 hours before I have to come back into work) so please pardon any typos or other unenglish terms. P

 

[Silveras]

Here is how the main Church is laid out in my homebrew world:

Culturally, there is a slight male-dominant tendency. Not as much as real world history, but enough that women adventurers are remarked on and noted, and some look at them as social misfits.

The Church, overall, is NG. There are various sects with slightly more Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic inclinations. The main sect is considered the Orthodox sect, and represents the most common "practical" NG orientation.

There are various lesser sects, all of which are allied with the Orthodox sect in the defense of the faith. In terms of dogma, all of these sects believe and teach the same core tenets. Because of their different orientations, each sect supports a slightly different set of Prestige Classes (supports means that the sect is able to train someone in that class). All of them support the Templar and Warpriest classes.

Patriarchists (LG/N): This sect emphasizes the role of male deities and male historical religious leaders, while also minimizing the role of females. This group also seeks to reduce the freedoms of women in society, placing more responsibility in the hands of "the more capable males". Inquisitors and Exorcists are common Prestige Classes supported by this sect.

Matriarchists (CG/N): This sect does not try to overemphasize the role of women the way the Patriarchists do with men; instead, this sect is organizaed around the idea of preserving the proper credit for the role of women in the Church. They also work to increase the range of options for women in society. Holy Liberators are supported here.

Free-Thinking (CG/N): This sect advocates that the best way to spread the faith and improve society is by educating anyone with the talent for magic. While recognizing that magic is a tool that can be used for good or ill, they feel that mages educated by the Church are more likely to use their skills for the common good, and will be more likely to help put down the maverick mages that abuse their abilities. Mystic Theurges as well as some Arcane-based classes are supported here.

Anti-Magist (LN): This sect believes that only those chosen by the gods should wield any magic. Secular mages are a danger in their eyes, and need to be controlled. Mystic Theurges, Exorcists, and Inquisitors are supported.

Re-Unionist (LN): This sect wishes to re-unite the local Church with its former parent, a more True Neutral aligned version of the Church. A schism hundreds of years ago split off the local good-aligned local Church from its parent organization. This sect wishes to see the Orthodox (and other sects) submit to the authority of the original parent.

Hope that helps. Note that the political differences have nothing to do with the doctrines of the Church -- religiously, one sect is the same as the others. The differences are all social and political.

 

[Piratecat]

The LG church of my Sun God has a few different factions. They concentrate on the God's different spheres of influence. As a result, you'll have those who focus on art and creation, a faction who focus on the joy that the sun brings, those who are driven on by the light, and so forth. Intra-church rivalries lead to some great subplots.

 

[Stormborn]

Thanks everyone for the input, I do appreciate it!

Storm, I would have to likely shy away from the latter two ideas. When I think Lawful, I think very well structured with definate tiers and a well-defined power structure. Such places put a great deal of emphasis on stability and tradition (second only to a LN people/place). Nonetheless, I am definately working on some cold conflicts. I do admit that I am having a hard time creating a heretical situation in a setting where Commune is a part of church life and answers can be easily attained concerning the truth.

Heresy could arrise when people are using Commune and getting either:
1)vague answers, parables or symbolic prophecy, in which case interpretations can vary widely
2) answers from different beigns. Perhaps there are competing deities of roughly equal power, and sometimes the bad one answers the followers of the good one. The good one allows this as some kind of test of faith. And since they gods tend to plan thing on the scale of lifetimes, it has been going on for a while.

As far as the difference of opinion about lawful, well it can be just a difference of opinion. All I would add is that in the last two cases Law does not neccesarily have to equal heirarchial. It may tend to be,thats true, but doesn't have to be that way. Law can simply refer to the way the god has ordained people should live. Anytime there is a well defined structure and pattern for living that is imposed by some outside force, be it a heirarchy or simply tradition, you have a lawful organization.

I also agree with smetzger that the emphasis of Law or Good can be an issue in such a church, and might lead to heresy.

Of course, heretics might know they are wrong and not care, but may be using their own abilites, and perhaps the secret worship of a CE god, to full the masses. Such a false church would likely be able to pull off enough deception that coudl split a society, eventually degenrating into the worst kind of religious/civil war.

 

[dargoth3]

A few example from the Forgotten Realms

In 1ed Banes (Bane being the LE God of Tyranny and Hatred) church was split between an Orthodox faction who believed that Tyranny should only be supported when a Cleric of Bane is the Tyrant, the other faction the Reformists led by Fzoul Chembryl (A prominent FR villian) believed that the church should support any Tyrant (In fzouls case he backed Manshoon a 16-18 Level Wizard who ruled Zhentil Keep)

Another example is Tyrs Paladins (Tyr being a God of Justice in the FR) There are 2 Paladins in Tyrs church one that focus on Law and One that focuss on good.

The Real exstreme of factionalisation in a FR church is Kossuths church (Kossuth being the god of fire) being neutral he has a LG order, a LN order and a LE order.

The LE and LG orders would view the other as Heretics and view the LN faction as merely misguided, the LN faction would view the LE and LG factions as misguided as well.

As Gods can now have followers who have one step away you can build factions on alignment as every church will have at least 3 Alignments in there church.

Another way you could build factionalisation is by basing factions on clerical domains or Portfolios (most gods have between 3-5 Domains so there plenty of potential factions just using Domains)