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Poll: A different approach to the 4E PHB?

What do you think of a different approach?

  • I would like it better.

    Votes: 25 32.1%
  • I wouldn't like it any more or less.

    Votes: 6 7.7%
  • I would like it less.

    Votes: 42 53.8%
  • It would be a better business model.

    Votes: 9 11.5%
  • It would be no better or worse of a business model.

    Votes: 10 12.8%
  • It would be a worse business model.

    Votes: 48 61.5%

Vyvyan Basterd

Adventurer
Cut the wasted space and full page art, and add more information.

Sell a D&D picture book separate for those needing/wanting excess imagery.

The white space is there to parse information in a meaningful way. Starting a new class in the bottom eighth of a page would be annoying to me.

Cutting the art would be a mistake. Many people like and many others take it for granted. Art in a book is the equivalent of background music in a TV show or movie. Watch one without the background music and you will probably be distracted by the feeling that something is wrong. The music adds imagery and the art in RPGs usually offers inspiration. Without it you would see many more complaints about 4E reading like a textbook.
 

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billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍⚧️
As much as I dislike WotC giving up character territory in 4e that D&D staked out in the initial release of other editions, I wouldn't give them the time of day if they broke the game up into tiers. When I'm choosing a character to play, I want to see the general abilities and powers available throughout the entirety of his career, not just the first installment.
 

justanobody

Banned
Banned
The white space is there to parse information in a meaningful way. Starting a new class in the bottom eighth of a page would be annoying to me.

Cutting the art would be a mistake. Many people like and many others take it for granted. Art in a book is the equivalent of background music in a TV show or movie. Watch one without the background music and you will probably be distracted by the feeling that something is wrong. The music adds imagery and the art in RPGs usually offers inspiration. Without it you would see many more complaints about 4E reading like a textbook.

You don't need a single bit of the art in the powers pages. They break up the powers causing a level to spill over to a new page. Yeah they are still powers for that class, but if you are going to have them organized by class and allow them to spill over, then get them together and cut out the art to make more meaningful use of the space.

If it were just full page art that would be different for the flashy shiny aspect but it is 3/4 opened book art in case where half a page is lost because the art takes more than a single page. That is excessive.

Hoe many pages could have been saved and add more content, reduce cost of the product, and production cost, etc by cutting the art back to proper proportions.

Don't have art spanning both open pages, and take art of of the stat block pages.

I don't mean remove all the art, but that which exist poorly throughout the book just to waste space.

I mean every class/race has half page art, each chapter has dual page art.

I don't even want to could the art in the powers pages. Each image is about 1/4 page, enough room to move at least one power up to the previous page. Sometimes with the art and white space there was enough room for 3 powers.

It is poor publishing and design the amount of landscape on the pages that are wasted. Look at the top and bottom margins of the page and compare those with the 1st 2nd edition books and you see similar wastes of space.

The design reminds me of the Complete series of books from 2nd with the header and footer space unused.

Maybe it helps when reading in bed, but at a table the book doesn't reuire thumbspace to hold it open at the bottom ot top, a whole hand can be used on the opposing edge.

These is probably enough room to add a whole other class and race into the PHB.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍⚧️
I still find it astonishing how many people complain about the layout of the 4e books, when, quite frankly, I find it one of the parts of 4e that saw the most improvement over 3e.
I'm no fan of 4e, but I am a fan of its layout and use of art. It is, by far, the most readable (as far as ease of reading, clarity, and organization) version of AD&D I've ever read.
 

I still find it astonishing how many people complain about the layout of the 4e books, when, quite frankly, I find it one of the parts of 4e that saw the most improvement over 3e.
I'm no fan of 4e, but I am a fan of its layout and use of art. It is, by far, the most readable (as far as ease of reading, clarity, and organization) version of AD&D I've ever read.
I don't understand the complaints either, but I guess people are just too different. Maybe there is a perfect layout yet to be created, but probably it's just impossible to satisfy everyone (or at least ensure no significantly complaining minorities) :)
 

justanobody

Banned
Banned
I still find it astonishing how many people complain about the layout of the 4e books, when, quite frankly, I find it one of the parts of 4e that saw the most improvement over 3e.
I'm no fan of 4e, but I am a fan of its layout and use of art. It is, by far, the most readable (as far as ease of reading, clarity, and organization) version of AD&D I've ever read.

4th is NOT AD&D. :rant:
 

buzz

Adventurer
I still find it astonishing how many people complain about the layout of the 4e books, when, quite frankly, I find it one of the parts of 4e that saw the most improvement over 3e.
I'm no fan of 4e, but I am a fan of its layout and use of art. It is, by far, the most readable (as far as ease of reading, clarity, and organization) version of AD&D I've ever read.
Agreed 100%. 4e's books are some of the most clearly-lain-out, functional D&D books I've ever seen. Much easier on the eyes when referencing than 3e (though 3e did feature some very cool graphic treatments in many books).

I also find arguments equating art with "wasted space" to be unfathomable. RPGs are not bulk produce. Art helps convey concepts as much as text does, in addition to enhancing the over aesthetic experience of the book. On top of this, 4e isn't even all that art-heavy.

EDIT: Man, this thread veered off-topic fast. :(
 

Irda Ranger

First Post
I would not like this. The classes in the PHB1 are "complete." I don't need to buy any more books to play them levels 1-30. And I can not waste my money the PHB.x that has the Psionics rules.

Which is how I like it.
 


justanobody

Banned
Banned
I would agree, in the main, but by taking the 4th edition name, it purports to be of AD&D's pedigree.

No it just follows logically after 3rd, which may have been built around AD&D, but by name could be the extension of its own namesake as the 3rd iteration of D&D after OD&D and BECMI as 1st and 2nd editions of D&D respectively.
 

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