[Poll] As A *Player*, Do You Enjoy Low-Magic/Grim&Gritty Campaigns?

[Bendris Noulg]

Oh, I like 3.x D&D, but I don't think it's completely perfect. I simply prefer it's flexibility to the arbitrary rigidness of earlier rules.

I wouldn't consider the previous editions as "arbitrary", though... Rather, the designers (specifically EGG, but most of the others) had their own preference of fantasy and wrote rules that reflected that preference (comparing different box sets then, such as FR to Planescape to Dark Sun to Ravenloft, was similar to comparing different d20 products now).

Then again, I don't really see a difference between arbitrary decisions to make things rigid and arbitrary decisions to make things flexible. The both require someone "high up" to say "I think the game should be like...", and off it goes.

Oh, I agree. The rules in 2e were vague, and sometimes contradictory. However, I do think that it's a little too easy in 3e. The only real difference in our views is the degree to which we agree; it would seem that I have a preference for a higher level of magic in my campaign. No big deal, for me, I'm more interested in running fun game than creating a campaign that has a literary or mythic feel.

Tsk tsk... This sounds a bit to much like "literary and mythic != fun"... I know it's not what you meant, but it's the sort of thing that can spark flames.

At any rate, I've no problem with potent magic, or even with the PCs having it. I'm just one to keep it rare in the world itself (making the PCs more special for having it) and making it part of in-game events to acquire it (rather than spontaneous spell generation, assumed research, assumed laboratory, assumed library, assumed temple/shrine, etc...).

Or consider it this way: While I may never give a PC [Spell X], there's nothing stopping the PC from researching [Spell X] and becoming the first spellcaster ever to have access to it. Low (Rare) Magic? Yes. Prohibited from PCs? Not in the slightest.

(And, naturally, keeping [Spell X] out of game play prior to the PC-creation of [Spell X], also means that NPCs won't have it either...)

While this isn't always the case in all Low Magic games, I've found (again, as a Player, and thus emulating similar as a GM) that it usually is.

Yeah, I did mention Spells & Magic in one of these threads a couple of days ago. It took the vague and arbitrary DMG rules and added some workable and reasonable guideline for the DM to work with. IIRC, High Level Campaigns had similar guidelines. I don 't remember exactly how much the two books had in common, but I tHink the guidelines were compatible.

Yeah, S&M had the majority of the guidelines, while HLC touched on it (it was more concerned with True Dwoemers, aka Epic Spellcasting's prototype).

 

[Orius]

Tsk tsk... This sounds a bit to much like "literary and mythic != fun"... I know it's not what you meant, but it's the sort of thing that can spark flames.

Then why bring it up ?!

At any rate, I've no problem with potent magic, or even with the PCs having it. I'm just one to keep it rare in the world itself (making the PCs more special for having it) and making it part of in-game events to acquire it (rather than spontaneous spell generation, assumed research, assumed laboratory, assumed library, assumed temple/shrine, etc...).

Or consider it this way: While I may never give a PC [Spell X], there's nothing stopping the PC from researching [Spell X] and becoming the first spellcaster ever to have access to it. Low (Rare) Magic? Yes. Prohibited from PCs? Not in the slightest.

What I would do myself, is require the PCs to build a lab/altar, assemble a library, or whatever first. Then I would also require them to research how an item is made before making it for the first time. More common and low power items shouldn't take more than a day or so, the really big stuff could take several weeks. Just taking an item creation feat doesn't necessarily give the player the know-how to create whatever he wants on the spot.

Also while I might not specifically give a spell to a player, if he wants the spell for his character, then he has to hunt down a copy. I use a spell rarity system similar to the one in the Wizard's Spell Compendium. Anything in the PHB is assumed to be a common spell and relatively easy to find. Most magical libraries will have copies of the spells, and wizards can only pick PHB spells when they level. Other spells are harder to find, sometimes much harder depending on the source of the spell. The rarest spells can only be found in prehapas a single book or only 2 or 3 scrolls in the entire campaign.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Then why bring it up ?!

Mostly as a preventative measure to keep things civil; a lot of debate occurs over a simple choice of words, with flames sometimes resulting from a poor choice of words. As I knew what you meant, I took the initiative to help prevent someone else from taking it too literally.

Hope you don't mind.

What I would do myself, is require the PCs to build a lab/altar, assemble a library, or whatever first. Then I would also require them to research how an item is made before making it for the first time. More common and low power items shouldn't take more than a day or so, the really big stuff could take several weeks. Just taking an item creation feat doesn't necessarily give the player the know-how to create whatever he wants on the spot.

Also while I might not specifically give a spell to a player, if he wants the spell for his character, then he has to hunt down a copy. I use a spell rarity system similar to the one in the Wizard's Spell Compendium. Anything in the PHB is assumed to be a common spell and relatively easy to find. Most magical libraries will have copies of the spells, and wizards can only pick PHB spells when they level. Other spells are harder to find, sometimes much harder depending on the source of the spell. The rarest spells can only be found in prehapas a single book or only 2 or 3 scrolls in the entire campaign.

Well, I don't use the PHB as a guideline of "common" spells, but I'd say you and I are mostly on the same line of reasoning (my guess being that the difference in specifics are more related to target flavor than anything).

(Heh... I once played in a campaign where only one Mage had wish, being a Chaotic Neutral madman NPC that would create a wish scroll every so often and randomly teleport it somewhere in the world just to see how much havoc it would cause. Personally, I was always hoping to find one so I could make a wish for wish to be added to my spellbook just to see the look on the GM's face...)