[Poll] How does the possibility of paladins losing their powers improve your game?

[Alensande]

I went for the first option. Its always been part of the concept of the paladin class that they walk a narrow path, and its a roleplay path. Heroic gaming.

I agree. I have played paladins under several GMs and we have always worked with the understanding that the loss of powers is not just a result of poor behavior on the paladin's part (someone who deliberately broke rules under which they agreed to live shouldn't be playing a paladin anyway), but often a result of the paladin's realization that they have strayed from the narrow path they have chosen. The loss of faith in themselves denies them access to their abilities until they feel have atoned for the damage they caused.

I also see the presentation of opportunities to lose powers as great chances to roleplay and be truly heroic - I watched a paladin defend a runaway slave in a slave-holding state ...everyone laughed later because we all realized that before our eyes he grew a big red fluttering cape from his shoulders and a huge S on his chest, even though in game he became an outlaw with a price on his head in that city. The chance to be heroic, even in our imaginations, is rare and players who want the chance should have it. Being truly good doesn't mean much without a chance to stand against true evil, and that stance means even less if there aren't consequences for the choices you make.

 

[Voadam]

I agree. I have played paladins under several GMs and we have always worked with the understanding that the loss of powers is not just a result of poor behavior on the paladin's part (someone who deliberately broke rules under which they agreed to live shouldn't be playing a paladin anyway), but often a result of the paladin's realization that they have strayed from the narrow path they have chosen. The loss of faith in themselves denies them access to their abilities until they feel have atoned for the damage they caused.

I also see the presentation of opportunities to lose powers as great chances to roleplay and be truly heroic - I watched a paladin defend a runaway slave in a slave-holding state ...everyone laughed later because we all realized that before our eyes he grew a big red fluttering cape from his shoulders and a huge S on his chest, even though in game he became an outlaw with a price on his head in that city. The chance to be heroic, even in our imaginations, is rare and players who want the chance should have it. Being truly good doesn't mean much without a chance to stand against true evil, and that stance means even less if there aren't consequences for the choices you make.

Did the paladin lose his powers here?

A fighter who did the same thing and became an outlaw would not have been as heroic, would not have gotten the cape?

 

[Umbran]

It represents error and redemption - but that in no way implies that it should happen "regularly". If it happens, it ought to be a special event in the Paladin's career. If it happens regularly, The Boss should reconsider allowing him back in again, ever.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

I've never understood the hatred for Paladins. I've played them and liked them, and had a lot of good players run a Paladin that brought a lot to the game.

True, there's a lot cookie cutter stereotypes involved (here's a hint: Lawful Good does NOT mean Lawful Dumbass) in a Paladin, but they can still be a good time.

A lot of times whether or not a Paladin loses his powers seems to break down to the "letter of the law" rather than the spirit. I've seen a LOT of cases where the GM used it to arbitrarily punish a player, or deliberately plan an encounter where the Paladin would lose his powers no matter what he did.

I think the loss of powers is interesting, and does provide more depth. But a lot of people forget that the Gods can strip ANY character of thier powers, clerics being the most likely to have this happen, Druids and Rangers tying for third place.

Plus, it can bring about some REALLY interesting events.

Like the Paladin noticing that his other chapterhouse brothers seem to be unable to access thier powers after branding him a heretic and casting him out of the order for refusing to do a certian deed demanded by the bishop.

The Paladin and his Blackguard nemisis BOTH losing thier powers temporarily when confronting one another, as if the Gods themselves have hinged the battle on the MEN rather than the God granted powers.

But still, I find stripping a Paladin of his powers when he had only bad choices, or for something he didn't realize he did (saving the werewolf and slaying the attacking villager, for example) and a lot of the other arbitrary garbage I've seen occur kind of... lame.

If you don't like the Paladin, strip it from the game.

Paladinhood can add a lot to the game. The loss of a paladin's god granted powers should be a major campaign event.

 

[Zethnar]

I think it can be a good story device which, more than anything else, seems to be the point of having the paladin able to loose her powers in the first place. It's not something inserted afterwards because the paladin class was more powerful than another, it was more likely the first feature of the paladin class to be decided upon.

If your paladin is close to loosing her powers you can set a series of adventures around her narrowly avoiding this. Alternatively if she does fall you can take it in two directions. Lead her down the path of becoming a dark paladin (perhaps giving in to another god, one who may have forced her hand in loosing her powers to begin with), or a dark trial in which she ultimately redeems herself (could be exactly the same series of adventures and depending on her choices she goes one way or the other).

 

[BOZ]

we actually had a paladin lose his powers in our current game. he even went on a quest from his god, made a half-ass effort and failed, and said "ah screw it" and gave up. of course, he was like a Paladin 2/Wizard 11 so he could afford to be stuck with a couple of fallen paladin levels.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

It is the number one source of DM arbitrariness and pointless arguments, and the number two source of piss-poor roleplaying (with number one being videogame mentality) from players.

I like the story potential that the fall from grace represents, but I think it takes truly exceptional players-- including the DM-- in order to make it work. It's too cluttered with archetype expectations that often don't fit the game world (being too closely tied to historical religions) and insanely nit-picky baggage from previous editions that practically demanded Lawful Stupid behavior to be handled without a good deal of house-ruling and consensus-building between the Paladin's player and the DM.

And I love Paladins. I love the idea of playing the hero, of standing up for what's right and proper in a world that's neither. I love difficult moral decisions and I love watching a hero trying to reconcile his moral code with the looser standards of his companions.

But it's just too hard to know what you're getting into when you decide to play a Paladin in someone else's game.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

In-game restrictions should have in-game benefits. A paladin should be more trusted, respected, and generally have greater authority and sway over (good and lawful) NPCs, especially the commoners, *in-game* because it is widely known that all paladins follow a certain code. That *balances* the restriction of having to follow a code of conduct.

This is something I can't agree with. Paladins can't even prove they're paladins, nor can they prove they can't lie. I don't think NPCs should act stupid just because they're commoners.

It's really sad watching players try to follow the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law. This is where all the "clever ways around lies" nonsense comes from.

The Paladin and his Blackguard nemisis BOTH losing thier powers temporarily when confronting one another, as if the Gods themselves have hinged the battle on the MEN rather than the God granted powers.

This looks interesting on paper, in a novel, but not in a game. The other players will shrug and kill the blackguard. Unless they're excluded, which is just a bad thing.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

It's really sad watching players try to follow the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law. This is where all the "clever ways around lies" nonsense comes from.

Especially given how out-of-character that should be for Paladins.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Especially given how out-of-character that should be for Paladins.

You wouldn't know that from the paladin defenders on the other thread :/