[Poll] How does the possibility of paladins losing their powers improve your game?

[Viktyr Gehrig]

You wouldn't know that from the paladin defenders on the other thread :/

I wouldn't know anything from the other thread; I've discovered that reading Paladin threads neither contributes to my enjoyment of the game nor my understanding of anything resembling human moral reasoning.

Actually, what I have found that helps me hammer out Paladin Codes of Conduct is finding really good political discussion boards-- difficult-- and engaging social issues on a philosophical level. Of course, I also do this for the Hell of it... but it helps me design fictional systems of morality that might conceivably produce Paladins.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I've been in, and ran, many campaigns with paladins over the last twenty-ish years and not once has a paladin lost their powers. I have, however, as a DM caused a cleric to have a crisis of faith and go on a quest of redemption. I admit, the players were in something of a no-win situation as the unwilling guests of Lloth but as one of the players used the semi-cursed mystical doodad of plane shifting to get them there to escape a giant life threatening snafu of the party's creation I felt justified. Especially since I had to run the entire thing off the cuff.

His god did not strip him of powers (he got tricked by a god after all so he was out of his league) but he was required to make restitution to those he had unwittingly wronged. the player was not upset at the turn of events as he suspected he was being manipulated but was unable to determine how until it was too late. Overall it worked out wonderfully as it gave me the hook I needed for a hard to justify story line.

 

[kigmatzomat]

This is something I can't agree with. Paladins can't even prove they're paladins, nor can they prove they can't lie. I don't think NPCs should act stupid just because they're commoners.

This is setting dependant. I generally have two classifications of paladins: those of a god and those of a cause. The ones with a cause have trouble verifying their credentials as a paladin but the ones who follow a god will have the markings of their church, likely belonging to a particular order.

Simply claiming to be a member of a religious order, let alone a Knight/Champion/Paladin-title, will bring down that religion's wrath. Think how hard the 14th century Catholic Church would have come down on someone claiming to be a Bishop. Most good religions of the same pantheon would also take poorly to it. Only the most daring or idiotic individuals will impersonate one of those Paladins.

Priests can verify bonafides fairly reliably with Augery, Zone of Truth and simply prepping detect spells the next day will help ensure the individual in question is, Lawful Good, if not a paladin. Villages may lack a priest with such abilities but any real city or local noble should have a suitable caster or magic items.

Plus a paladin can always use Lay on Hands. Sure, it could be mimiced with a still, silent cure spell but at that point you've got a 5th level caster imposter that could still be unmasked by a detect magic (Hey, that's a pretty high level of magic for curing a paper cut) or a decent Spellcraft roll.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Paladins being held to a higher standard and having to live knowing that a slip up can take away their powers, and the rest of the world knowing this, makes paladins very special. You can't even say that not everyone can be a paladin, that's too broad. Barely anyone can be a paladin. And even most who are paladins will fall at one time or another. Those who can stand back up are even stronger.

This gives paladins a mystique about them, a power in the security that good can count on them and evil can loathe and fear them. People can whisper, "He's a paladin," and immediately know how rare and important that is. Even the common man hears the word paladin and conjures up an amazingly heroic character, infallable and strong of will. And, because of the restrictions on the class, they arn't far from the truth. That is the power of the paladin.

You're free to agree or disagree. That's how it is in my campaigns, however.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

Paladins being held to a higher standard and having to live knowing that a slip up can take away their powers, and the rest of the world knowing this, makes paladins very special. You can't even say that not everyone can be a paladin, that's too broad. Barely anyone can be a paladin. And even most who are paladins will fall at one time or another. Those who can stand back up are even stronger.

This gives paladins a mystique about them, a power in the security that good can count on them and evil can loathe and fear them. People can whisper, "He's a paladin," and immediately know how rare and important that is. Even the common man hears the word paladin and conjures up an amazingly heroic character, infallable and strong of will. And, because of the restrictions on the class, they arn't far from the truth. That is the power of the paladin.

You're free to agree or disagree. That's how it is in my campaigns, however.

Beautifully said. Paladins are like that, at least they should be.

 

[jdrakeh]

I selected both the first answer and the last answer. I chose the first, as that's how it is supposed to work in theory (but as threads here demonstrate rarely does) and the last (i.e., other) because I think that the loss of powers as a consequence of acting without first thinking (or simply acting without regard for consequences) re-enforces the notion that poor choices will, in fact, carry some weight.

 

[Nifft]

Paladins are special, and that is good. Agreed.

Paladins keep other player's characters on the path of good, or at least the path of "plausible deniability", and that too is good.

-- N