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Poll - I'm over 25 and I've read....

I've read books from the following authors:

  • Dan Abnett

    Votes: 53 12.5%
  • Lloyd Alexander

    Votes: 138 32.5%
  • Poul Anderson

    Votes: 190 44.8%
  • Terry Brooks

    Votes: 281 66.3%
  • Jim Butcher

    Votes: 110 25.9%
  • R. Scott Bakker

    Votes: 41 9.7%
  • Glen Cook

    Votes: 169 39.9%
  • Susan Cooper

    Votes: 76 17.9%
  • Lord Dunsany

    Votes: 108 25.5%
  • Charles De Lint

    Votes: 102 24.1%
  • David Eddings

    Votes: 248 58.5%
  • Steven Erikson

    Votes: 90 21.2%
  • David Farland

    Votes: 40 9.4%
  • Neil Gaiman

    Votes: 285 67.2%
  • Alan Garner

    Votes: 22 5.2%
  • Gary Gygax

    Votes: 246 58.0%
  • Hickman & Weis

    Votes: 325 76.7%
  • Robert Howard

    Votes: 279 65.8%
  • Frank Herbert

    Votes: 305 71.9%
  • Robin Hobb

    Votes: 115 27.1%
  • Robert Jordan

    Votes: 278 65.6%
  • Brian Jacques

    Votes: 90 21.2%
  • Diana Wynne Jones

    Votes: 56 13.2%
  • Katherine Kurtz

    Votes: 131 30.9%
  • William King

    Votes: 34 8.0%
  • Mercedes Lackey

    Votes: 154 36.3%
  • Fritz Leiber

    Votes: 266 62.7%
  • H.P. Lovecraft

    Votes: 316 74.5%
  • Stephen Lawhead

    Votes: 92 21.7%
  • George r.r. Martin

    Votes: 258 60.8%
  • Michael Moorcock

    Votes: 273 64.4%
  • William Morris

    Votes: 26 6.1%
  • China Mieville

    Votes: 115 27.1%
  • Andre Norton

    Votes: 155 36.6%
  • Terry Pratchett

    Votes: 264 62.3%
  • J. K. Rowlings

    Votes: 278 65.6%
  • Sean Russell

    Votes: 19 4.5%
  • Mickey Zucker Reichert

    Votes: 29 6.8%
  • R.A. Salvatore

    Votes: 296 69.8%
  • J. R. R. Tolkien

    Votes: 406 95.8%
  • Jack Vance

    Votes: 191 45.0%
  • Paul Edwin Zimmer

    Votes: 26 6.1%
  • I'm 25 or younger

    Votes: 17 4.0%

  • Poll closed .
All of this is wholly subjective and generalized:
Most poetry is, to be perfectly obvious, shorter than a novel. Much, much, much shorter than a novel. More is packed into less space. A superficial reading produces something that, frankly, doesn't seem very interesting. A reader is required to interpret, translate, and internalize poetry. The effort is compounded when the poetry is older, in an older style, or deliberately obscure. Many poems also follow strict patterns and arrangements.

A generic fiction novel requires less interpretation. The author provides description, and writing is in the vernacular. Allusions, analogies, and the like are supplemental to the reading, not required for the reading to make anything more than crude sort of sense.

Television (and even moreso movies) go even further. Descriptions aren't even required to be read; they're visually presented. Ditto auditory features. Again, subtext may be (usually is) present, and many movies ("artsy") do require an understanding of the subtext to fully appreciate, but the medium overall requires less upfront work to appreciate.

Poetry predominated for millenia (I think) because the structure and fixed patterns helped memorization and oral transmission. Literacy, cheap paper, and an inclusive, not exclusive (educated/trained/damned lucky) audience brought prose to the forefront of popular culture.

Or so goes my opinion of the moment and off the cuff.


I think that is a very good analysis too.

I also think that with good poetry, aside from the allusions, symbolism, etc. in linguistic form (which is what I meant in the fact that it stimulates a different way of thinking, like learning a foreign language, new vocabulary and grammatical construction patterns that see different "orders of perception and expression," or like geometry, a different way of "measuring and encompassing reality"), also promotes and stimulates "the imagination." By this I mean the imagination outside of itself, or outside the entirely subjective scope of the individual.

And yes I think it may be a difficult form to learn, of course anything can be learned with practice, as you said because so much of modern society is geared towards the immediate gratification of the imagination. That is to say with much modern "media" (not oral story-telling, or memorized mytho-poetic tales of the fantastic) the imagination is not so much stimulated with internal visions of a subject matter greater than the individual, but the imagination is guided - the imagination does not have to work so much as consume - from the objective to the subjective without much work on the part of the consumer so moved. Although much of modern poetry has lost the ability, in the "senseless orgy" to talk about small, mundane things, like coffee grinds and bubblegum stuck to your shoe (it has become all about subjective experience and has no greater purpose, meaning, or experience beyond the immediately obvious), that it both bores most people silly and "senseless" and yet also goes nowhere worth recounting. (Plus it tends to be not very impressive technically, in form or structure.) It has become the TV-era of the form (poetry). It has no end (pun intended), just recounts whatever it happens to encounter in a sort of stream of consciousness voyeurism.

(However to be fair as modern media becomes more and more complex it is finding new methods, and sometimes rediscovering old methods - like viral influences, and if you ask me poetry is a viral influence, it implants things other than the obvious upon the field of perception and imagination- and I'm glad to see that. In other words many forms of modern media are moving out of their infancy and into more complex realms of expressions, similar I suspect as to when any form of effort moves form the early stages of it's existence and becomes more complex and capable.)

The reason I say all of this about poetry is because, aside from the act that it is a subject that interests me on many levels (linguistic, psychological, perceptual, mental, spiritual, artistic, even scientific), I think that poetry and fantasy have been for most of human history, and should continue to be, analogues of one another. That is they both indirectly and yet substantially stimulate both the psyche and the imagination in ways that few other forms can. And I think that is why for most of human history, aside from the pragmatic mnemonic benefits you mentioned, poetry and fantasy have been far more often than not, closely interwoven, or to be more honest, the one has been en-clothed within the other.

Most great fantasy of the past has been poetic in nature, or constructed in such a way that the prose is proetic, or the prose often overlaps or transforms itself into poetic sections. Because fantasy has in many ways served the same functions as poetry, though both serve different functions as well. And speaking of well I could, well, go on this way for some time in this vein about this kind of thing. But this morning I'm taking my kids and my Saint Bernard to the lake. So I'm gonna kill this. But I have enjoyed the exchange.

Anywho last night before bed I read, or re-read, an old story by Lord Dunsany called The Fortress Unvanquishable, Save for Sacnoth (which I highly recommend). I was drinking some wine and reading that story and suddenly it struck me how much the story reminded me of Jack Flanders, especially The Fourth Tower of Inverness, and then I thought of radio, and how radio once had the power to stimulate the imagination, and allude to, and "symbolize in the air," in much the same way as poetry and fantasy. And I thought back to what you had said about TV. And it made me laugh. Because television literally means "to see from afar," like a Palantir, and I think of it as God Technology, though I reckon it is as often used to see as much slop as the sublime.

In any case I sorely wish that there was more modern fantasy along the lines of Lord Dunsany (a brilliant imagination) and more fantasy along the lines of Jack Flanders. It would be a much better genre if there were more of that kinda thing.

Well, I gotta go.

Lat'r gators.
 

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I think that is a very good analysis too.
Thanks!



... In other words many forms of modern media are moving out of their infancy and into more complex realms of expressions...
Absolutely. We've had thousands of years to develop poetry and written languages. We've had decades to develop movies & tv. We've had several years to develop "multi-media".

I've stopped writing anything off as "dead" or "stupid" or ... anything. The internet is a game changer like we've never seen. At the moment I'd place it on a par with electricity, but it'll probably surpass that. More people, more information, more accessible, than at any time ever in history. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if epic poems make a comeback, except that it probably wouldn't be in a form we'd immediately identify.

In any case I sorely wish that there was more modern fantasy along the lines of Lord Dunsany (a brilliant imagination) and more fantasy along the lines of Jack Flanders. It would be a much better genre if there were more of that kinda thing.

I'll look for those. I've read a little Dunsany, but not Flanders.
 


I've read a little Dunsany, but not Flanders.

I should have made that clearer Nel. Jack Flanders is a series of old (or it probably would be to you) radio plays. If you ever get a chance to hear one then do so. Believe me, you won't regret it.

It's like listening to a Skald tell tales.


begin composing the Twitteriad this weekend (preferably after a few drinks).

Made me laugh.
Can I get the short version?
 

I should have made that clearer Nel. Jack Flanders is a series of old (or it probably would be to you) radio plays. If you ever get a chance to hear one then do so. Believe me, you won't regret it.

It's like listening to a Skald tell tales.

I'm not young, but radio plays are a bit before my time.

This guy lives in my area; I haven't heard him for some time, but MAN...this is who I think of when people talk about storytellers. Aimed towards younger listeners, for the most part, but still incredible. Welcome to Odds Bodkin Online!
 

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