Poll/petition Sign the "KEEP DRAGON MAGAZINE' poll/petition

[Raven Crowking]

And, in any case, the production decisions have been made - this is rather like starting a petition to save a TV show after the sets have been struck, and the cast has moved on to other projects. In theory, they could put it back together, but it'd be costly and time consuming to do so. I'd only expect such a move after they have evidence (rather than internet opinion) that the new thing will not work well enough.

To follow through on the analogy, continued fan support -- when these guys just don't shut up, leads to a series of films starring the original cast. Eventually, it leads to Dragon: The Next Generation and Dungeon Deeps 9. Then Kim Mohan gets a role in Boston Legal.

Doctor Who was dead, too. The sets had been struck. The FOX/BBC movie/pilot was considered a ratings failure. Look at it now.

EDIT: Some might claim that the DI is Dragon: The Next Generation, but to my mind the WotC site content has often been subpar....maybe the average Voyager episode.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Hmm, don't you get tired of looking at a computer screen?

I stare at a computer screen all day long, the last thing I want to do is stare at one to read the next "digital Initiative." Plus, if this even remotely works, the next step will be 4th edition all in PDF format, no more books. While it might be nice to have splat books on computer, the core books would blow in that format.

Honestly, I do think Dragon might be better served by a digital style offering. Its always been the least useful of the two products. If I'm using a bit of crunch from it, its one feat out of the magazine. A digital product I could cut and paste from would be more handy than what I've got, as opposed to taking a magazine for a single spell, another for a feat, another for a monster... etc.

Dungeon, of which I got far more use out of, wouldnt be served as well. I only bring one Dungeon at a time, and referenece it throughout, so a physical product is more useful.

 

[DM-Rocco]

If you really want to do something start a paper petition drive at Origins.

Well, I don't think I can make it to Origins this year, although if something changes, I certianly would.

The problem is your poll is self-selecting. You say in the thread title to "sign the 'Keep the Dragon Magazine' poll/petition" Of course most of the people who vote in the poll will be voting for keeping it. Those not interested in keeping the magazines won't bother voting in the poll and won't be interested in signing a petition.

If it makes you feel good, I guess that's fine, but I hope you don't convince yourself that you will actually make any difference with this poll. The only thing that might bring back the magazine is if the DI makes less profit than the print magazines ever did, or if in a few years there is a sea change at WotC and the new leadership realizes that, whether digital or print format, the brand names Dragon and Dungeon are worth restoring to cash in on the recognition they bring.

Well, the poll is just for me to see where people stand, the on-line petition is the quote in post two. You are not going to quote that unless you want Dragon and Dungeon back. In which case, you wouldn't read this and it wouldn't matter if you did anyway, because you will not NOT sign a petition, that is, you don't start a petition to get rid of the other peition.

 

[Festivus]

Hmm, don't you get tired of looking at a computer screen?

I stare at a computer screen all day long, the last thing I want to do is stare at one to read the next "digital Initiative." Plus, if this even remotely works, the next step will be 4th edition all in PDF format, no more books. While it might be nice to have splat books on computer, the core books would blow in that format.

As long as I can hit the "Print" button I don't really care what format it comes in. Yeah, I do get tired of looking at the screen from time to time. It was my understanding that there would be an option to print whatever the DI had to offer.

If it was electronic only, then conventions would be going the way of the dodo as well. I don't see it happening, there will be an option to print the DI stuff, and if/when 4th edition comes out it will be sold at the book/game store just like 3.5 was. That's how I envision it anyhow.

 

[DM-Rocco]

To follow through on the analogy, continued fan support -- when these guys just don't shut up, leads to a series of films starring the original cast. Eventually, it leads to Dragon: The Next Generation and Dungeon Deeps 9. Then Kim Mohan gets a role in Boston Legal.

Doctor Who was dead, too. The sets had been struck. The FOX/BBC movie/pilot was considered a ratings failure. Look at it now.

EDIT: Some might claim that the DI is Dragon: The Next Generation, but to my mind the WotC site content has often been subpar....maybe the average Voyager episode.

I always thought it was more Deep Spacish than anything, bogged down in political correctness and poor plot points

 

[DM-Rocco]

Honestly, I do think Dragon might be better served by a digital style offering. Its always been the least useful of the two products. If I'm using a bit of crunch from it, its one feat out of the magazine. A digital product I could cut and paste from would be more handy than what I've got, as opposed to taking a magazine for a single spell, another for a feat, another for a monster... etc.

Dungeon, of which I got far more use out of, wouldnt be served as well. I only bring one Dungeon at a time, and referenece it throughout, so a physical product is more useful.

That's kind of funny because if I had to do without one or the other I would choose Dungeon. Don't get me wrong, I love both, but I fond myself constantly paging through Dragon Magazines while I might make a note of one thing I like from Dungeon and discard the rest.

 

[Raven Crowking]

If I were to be completely honest, I'd rather see EN World Gamer prosper than Dragon. Reading Monte Cook's comments made me realize just how much I miss the older magazine, with its "gamer community of equals" feel. EN World Gamer had that.

If Dragon ever does come back, I'd like it to go back to its roots. Of course, I'd like that for parts of the game as well.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

To follow through on the analogy, continued fan support -- when these guys just don't shut up, leads to a series of films starring the original cast. Eventually, it leads to Dragon: The Next Generation and Dungeon Deeps 9. Then Kim Mohan gets a role in Boston Legal.

Doctor Who was dead, too. The sets had been struck. The FOX/BBC movie/pilot was considered a ratings failure. Look at it now.

EDIT: Some might claim that the DI is Dragon: The Next Generation, but to my mind the WotC site content has often been subpar....maybe the average Voyager episode.

I think the analogy fails in this case because, while the magazines themselves have been cancelled, the plan is to have the content they contained continue in a new format. TV shows usually get a second life in spin-offs or films due to vocal fan support because there is nothing else to replace it and eventually someone realizes "hey, we have a chance to make some serious money from these insane people who will line up for hours to buy an autographed picture from a cast member!"

Unless Dragon and Dungeon develop a deep cult following with people buying up old issues like mad, trading them on eBay, starting fan conventions, dressing up like their favorite staffers (I hear the Eric Mona costume will be quite popular at Halloween this year) and prove they will buy anything related to the magazines, I don't think the fans will be very responsible for bringing them back in the future.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I think the analogy fails in this case

Yeah, me too. I think that the analogy failed with the "sets have been struck" line.

In any event, I'm not at all certain that the WotC DI is going to have the same content that Dungeon and Dragon would have had. Whatever else Paizo purchases/commissioned for the magazines is, I would imagine, owned by Paizo. What doesn't appear in the final issues might appear in some form at some time, but I doubt very much that it will be in the DI.

I'm sure people will check out the DI, especially if it's free (or has free content) at first. But human apathy and human greed are easy to count on, and getting people to pay for online content is a hard sell. Online gaming? People pay for that. Online reading material? Not as likely. Less likely if there's a non-online competitor, or an online competitor that's free.

And WotC has both.

The odds are good, IMHO, that human apathy and the desire to avoid spending money without getting anything "real" for it will win out. And then, if we keep talking about the magazine....if we don't just shut up....to someone somewhere, the idea will occur that there is money to be made.

Human apathy and human greed. You can count on them.

IMHO, of course. YMMV.

 

[DM-Rocco]

If I were to be completely honest, I'd rather see EN World Gamer prosper than Dragon. Reading Monte Cook's comments made me realize just how much I miss the older magazine, with its "gamer community of equals" feel. EN World Gamer had that.

If Dragon ever does come back, I'd like it to go back to its roots. Of course, I'd like that for parts of the game as well.

I agree with you on that. I too liked the older content. Sometimes I get the feeling that there is a high brow "I'm writing this and you will listen," kind of thing versus hey, I have these problems too, try this. I would like to see something back to the gamers roots.

Side note: I'm still reviewing your classes, I'm going on vacation next week, Walt Disney World here I come, and I haven't had a lot of free time.