Polymorph and mental ability scores

[Nikosandros]

I'm a bit confused by the description of the new polymorph sub-school in the PHBII. It seems to imply that a polymorphed creature also gains the mental ability scores of the assumed form.

This doesn't make much sense to me and appears to be in contradiction wiht the recent aticle on WotC website.

Am I misunderstanding something?

 

[Sammael]

That's my impression as well; when you turn into a troll, you also gain the troll's mental ability scores. This is probably to reduce bookkeeping and cross-referencing of things like skills.

 

[Vorput]

...are you kidding? Wow, I need to read the phb2... it seems like that opens up more abuses than the old polymorph rules.

 

[PK]

Wait, I haven't read the PHBII yet but I just read the article on WotC about the new polymorph and they specifically stated that mental stats do NOT change.

Is this an error or are they already altering the altered rules?

 

[Knight Otu]

Am I misunderstanding something?

According to the excerpt, the old spells retain their normal function. One part of that is that the polymorphed creature retains its own mental ability scores. Those new polymorph spells, however, will change the mental ability scores.

 

[Nikosandros]

According to the excerpt, the old spells retain their normal function. One part of that is that the polymorphed creature retains its own mental ability scores. Those new polymorph spells, however, will change the mental ability scores.

Well, I suppose you're right. Still it's kind of contadictory... on one hand the PHBII intorduces the new sub-school of polymorph which specifically states that you acquire the mental ability scores of the creature. On the other, we get a lenghty three part essay form WotC which confirms what was already in the PHB: the caster keeps his mental ability scores.

So, basically, a new subschool is introduced, but all the previously published spells belonging to it, represent an exception...

I guess it can work, but it's certanly awkward...

 

[MerricB]

It's there as an option. Some DMs (like me) will use the newer material and discard the previous polymorph spells. Other DMs will use a combination, and still others will use the old only.

I think it's nice how they've done that - and anything that pushes back the release of 4e is good!

Cheers!

 

[Nikosandros]

It's there as an option. Some DMs (like me) will use the newer material and discard the previous polymorph spells. Other DMs will use a combination, and still others will use the old only.

I like the idea of having creature-specific polymorph spells. Despite it being a nice idea for a spell, the "standard" polymorph has always been a nightmare to adjudicate for me, ever since 1E.

That said, I don't much care for the idea of changing mental ability scores. What do you think of it?

Also, they could have been a bit clearer about the "interaction" between the descrption of the sub-school and pre-existing spells.

I think it's nice how they've done that - and anything that pushes back the release of 4e is good!

Isn't 4e coming out in a few weeks?

 

[MerricB]

I like the idea of having creature-specific polymorph spells. Despite it being a nice idea for a spell, the "standard" polymorph has always been a nightmare to adjudicate for me, ever since 1E.

That said, I don't much care for the idea of changing mental ability scores. What do you think of it?

I much prefer the ability scores changing; I kind of think the polymorphed PC still has its own mental abilities controlling what it's doing. The reason I prefer the change is that it creates no nasty combinations or calculations with special abilities, saves, etc.

If you change into a red dragon, you can just look at the red dragon stats and say, "Oh, in this form I have a Will +X save". If you change into a Medusa, you know that your gaze attack has a DC of 15 without needing to recalculate it.

Previously, all those stats would need to be recalculated. Oh, and the joy of whether you gained special abilities or not... and the interactions with things like the choker...

"You are this creature" is so much easier on things. The next step is determining whether the creature is balanced. I would like to eventually see "Polymorph" lists on the same level as the Summon Monster lists.

Also, they could have been a bit clearer about the "interaction" between the descrption of the sub-school and pre-existing spells.

Indeed!

Isn't 4e coming out in a few weeks?

I heard it came out yesterday!

Cheers!

 

[Nikosandros]

I much prefer the ability scores changing [...]

Hmmm... your point is well taken, I guess that i don't care too much for the rule from a "flavor" point of view, but it certainly makes life easier...

It will be interesting to see if we'll get more polymorph spells at some later point...