Polymorph and Vow of Poverty...

[Arravis]

Does a polymorphed character keep his Vow of Poverty extraordinary abilities?

Alter Self mentions: "You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels."

The intent of the effect I believe was to loose any racial or physical special abilities, not those gained from some other source. Would you keep all the extraordinary abilities since they are gained due to a feat, and you keep you feats (other than racial)? Anyway, any comments, ideas, etc, would be welcome.

 

[shilsen]

I'd say "Yes." As you say, you retain your non-racial feats, and that's the source of your VoP abilities.

 

[abri]

I might be wrong but aren't almost all the bonuses of vow of poverty Su instead of Ex?
I know the exalted feats ARE Su, pretty sure every thing else on the list is Su too.

 

[FireLance]

I might be wrong but aren't almost all the bonuses of vow of poverty Su instead of Ex?
I know the exalted feats ARE Su, pretty sure every thing else on the list is Su too.

Okay, what about Shapechange, then?

You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form, but you lose your own supernatural abilities.

 

[Corsair]

I would say they are granted by the feat. The character still has the feat, so they retain the benefit.

As opposed to say a changeling Shapechanging into a balor. He would lose his ability to change form.

 

[Scion]

I guess that means that people who picked up VoP at first level (generally humans) should stay away from the various froms of shapechanging.. they will lose a lot!

Then again, while they are changed they no longer have the feat.. and so they no longer have the restriction.. I guess that could be 'interesting' in a very strange sort of campaign.

 

[Livia]

First Post Power.

Okay, what about Shapechange, then?

Hrrm, I don't think you'd be able to cast Shapechange with a Vow of Poverty ... shape change requires a 1500 gp cost focus by straight phb.

Unless there's a way to change it from a range of personal to a target, a willing target I would imagine, this kinda can't be done without some house ruling. I think. I could be entirely wrong.

 

[Jack Simth]

Hrrm, I don't think you'd be able to cast Shapechange with a Vow of Poverty ... shape change requires a 1500 gp cost focus by straight phb.

Unless there's a way to change it from a range of personal to a target, a willing target I would imagine, this kinda can't be done without some house ruling. I think. I could be entirely wrong.

Sure it can; Sorceror -> Archmage -> Spell Like Ability (Shapechange) - no expensive material components, so no XP cost; no mention is made of Focuses, so in theory, it works just fine (Although the Sorceror has permanently burned a 9th level spell known for something he can only cast twice per day....).

 

[Livia]

Sure it can; Sorceror -> Archmage -> Spell Like Ability (Shapechange) - no expensive material components, so no XP cost; no mention is made of Focuses, so in theory, it works just fine (Although the Sorceror has permanently burned a 9th level spell known for something he can only cast twice per day....).

Aha! I knew I could be wrong.

Not a great use of the ability though, but you're quite right, I didn't even consider it, hehe.

 

[Jack Simth]

Aha! I knew I could be wrong.

Not a great use of the ability though, but you're quite right, I didn't even consider it, hehe.

A Spell-Like Ability is not usually a grand idea, agreed; but Shapechange is a very useful, flexible spell, and that's one of the very few ways a Vow of Poverty spellcaster is going to be able to use it.

Mostly, though, it's just for the intellectual exercise of the matter; get's rid of the little "but he can't cast it...." side issue.