Polymorph into a Girallon- use equip?

Quidam · Sep 16, 2003

Would you consider a girallon close enough in shape to a humanoid to allow items and weapons to be used? Speech? I don't think I'd allow speech, but the form has hands, stands upright, etc.

On a side note- anyone got a favorite 8HD creature to poly into?

Artoomis · Sep 16, 2003

I'd allow it.

I'd have to reread the appropriate rules to decide whether you actually get any effective use of the extra arms, though.

Magus Coeruleus · Sep 17, 2003

Quidam said:
Would you consider a girallon close enough in shape to a humanoid to allow items and weapons to be used? Speech? I don't think I'd allow speech, but the form has hands, stands upright, etc.

On a side note- anyone got a favorite 8HD creature to poly into?

I ran a game that included a level 10 druid and I gave him a rundown of some of his Wildshape choices. To my surprise, he wound up preferring the Dire Ape, even though it is a 5HD creature. Why?

Well, the main reason is that it has 10' reach, unlike most animals, can gesture and use body language much like a human, even though it can't speak, and because it has decent manual dexterity. I like to play these things conservatively, so I would not have let him wield all sorts of weapons designed for human-proportioned hands, but I saw no reason not to let him use a large greatclub.

Since you're talking Polymorph, you're not restricted to animals, so the Girallon seems a great choice for the same basic reasons as the Dire Ape. I definitely would not allow speech. I would not allow all items and weapons to be used, but would consider each on a case by case basis. A Gorilla's hand, arms, and body is general is not proportioned the same way as a human's. Some weapons might be just as easily used, while others might call for a -2 to -4 penalty to hit, and others be unusable.

Don't forget that having multiple arms does not automatically let you use them to full capacity with Polymorph or Wildshape.

Darklone · Sep 17, 2003

Hmm. Girallions do not use equipment usually, so no, I wouldn't allow it. Neither for the Direape.

green slime · Sep 17, 2003

Darklone said:
Hmm. Girallions do not use equipment usually, so no, I wouldn't allow it. Neither for the Direape.

I recall this very conversation from a month or two ago.

No consensus was reached, some people felt that the opposable thumbs should allow the use of weaponry (me included) while others felt it shouldn't.

Iku Rex · Sep 17, 2003

Quidam: 3.5 or 3.0?

Quidam · Sep 19, 2003

Iku Rex said:
Quidam: 3.5 or 3.0?

3.5, though I'm running a 3.0 game where it might become an issue. How does it make a difference? 3.5 Poly allows the (Ex) attacks of the creature, but that doesn't seem to apply in this case.

Sure, girallons don't use equipment, but I think that's more to do with the fact that they're too stupid to know how to rather than their bodies aren't capable of doing so.

Iku Rex · Sep 20, 2003

Quidam said:
3.5, though I'm running a 3.0 game where it might become an issue. How does it make a difference? 3.5 Poly allows the (Ex) attacks of the creature, but that doesn't seem to apply in this case.

Sure, girallons don't use equipment, but I think that's more to do with the fact that they're too stupid to know how to rather than their bodies aren't capable of doing so.

In 3.0 polymorph equipment sometimes resize to fit he new form, depending on its type and shape. (IMO a girallon doesn't qualify, but clearly YMMV.)

In 3.5 that clause has been removed, so now only magic clothing and jewelry resizes. (And not due to the spell.) Given the short duration of polymorph it is highly impractical to use a Large form in combat if you're Medium sized. At the very least you'd need custom made non-magical clothing and a Large weapon, and you can't wear armor.

(The best way to use polymorph as a buff spell in 3.5 is to be a native outsider, for the Medium outsider shapes, or a half-ogre, since then you're already Large.)