Polymorph & Pregnancy

[Centaur]

At the risk of censorship or having this thread removed, I have a question of opinion to ask of everyone. As the heading would indicate, it has to do with the use of Polymorph spells and Sex.

Please people, lets keep it clean, Here is the question.

For the Purpose of argument, we'll keep the discussion to the use of Polymorph Other.

First, can a person under the effects of a polymorph spell become pregnant?

For example:
1) A Female Elf is Polymorphed into a female Gnome.
2) A male human is Polymorphed into a female human.

In either of these cases, could the person become pregnant?

Second, Could a person induce pregnancy while under the effects of a polymorph spell?

For example:
3) A Male Elf polymorphed into a Male Gnome.
4) A Female Human Polymorphed into a Male Human.

In either of these cases, could the person induce pregnancy?

If pregnancy is possible under 1 or 2 above, what would happen to the fetus when the spell is reversed? What happens to the child when the pregnancy comes to term?

Third, what happens to an existing fetus when Polymorph is cast onto someone who is already pregnant? Is the person protected from the effects by some mystical force to protect the child or is the fetus subject to the same transformation as the mother (i.e.. transformed to a fetal version of what mom is transformed into)? Or is it not? What happens to the child if the pregnancy goes to term while under the influence of the pregnancy?

Fourth, what if the form the person is polymorphed into is of a different Type than that of the persons natural form. For example, a humanoid is transformed into a giant or a dragon.

We already know from the rules that Dragons and some Outsiders can assume compatible forms to breed with humans etc., what about the other way around or is this a factor of their supernatural existence or power?

How would you run this in your own campaign? Are there rules concerning it anywhere? Has it ever been discussed before?

 

[Umbran]

In considering Polymorph Other, the spell says, "The polymorphed creature acquires the physical and natural abilities of the creature it has been polyumorphed into while retaining it's own mind."

So, that pretty much handles 1,2, and most of 4. In general, siring or bearing children is a physical or natural ability. You get whatever ability the new form should have.

I'd suggest that the dragon and outsider broad ability to crossbreed is not natural, and so is not covered by this spell. A person polymorphed into a dragon might be able to breed with other dragons, but not with much else.

Your third point opens up a can of worms bordering on the political, and I won't speculate. The spell description includes nothing specifically relevant that I can see, so you can choose to run it any way you like.

 

[Isida Kep'Tukari]

Third, what happens to an existing fetus when Polymorph is cast onto someone who is already pregnant? Is the person protected from the effects by some mystical force to protect the child or is the fetus subject to the same transformation as the mother (i.e.. transformed to a fetal version of what mom is transformed into)? Or is it not? What happens to the child if the pregnancy goes to term while under the influence of the pregnancy?

I'll pull something out of fantasy stories to answer this question. I picked up a set of fairy tales, called something like "Enchanted Worlds," at a garage sale. I think they were some kind of Time-Life series like you would buy off the TV, as they are lovely hardcover books with glossy pages and lots of pictures There was one book for each theme - fairies, elves, giants, ghosts, wizards, enchantments, love, etc.

One of the stories, I believe in either the fairies or enchantment book, dealt with the question posed above. The wife of a man was transformed into a dog to punish her husband. However, she was pregnant at the time. While her husband was eventually able to break the curse, the curser told him that the children's names weren't on the spell, and thus couldn't be broken. Thus the man's potential heirs were born dogs, though his wife was returned to her natural form. Now, they were very intelligent and loyal dogs, but still dogs.

 

[DonAdam]

I'm going to try to stick to the descriptive here, but if this post gets out of hand by all means edit it away, mods:

It also depends on your view of conception. There is no doubt that it is a physical act, but many religions, including most Christian sects, also posit a divine action in conception (no discussion of the ethical implications, please).
Specifically, as far as I know (being a theology major) the Roman Catholic church posits the infusion of the intellectual soul as part of the act of conception. This act is performed by God, not by the couple, who participates in it.

If something similar happens in your campaign world, it would simply be an issue of divine fiat. Of course, that raises the question of whether what would be conceived would be of an intellectual nature.

And that, of course, opens up a whole range of potential problems.

So the moral of the story is, introducing metaphysical considerations thoroughly complicates things, and in my experience is rarely of value in D&D.

My solution? Just tell them that their "equipment" doesn't work, or avoid polymorphed sex in your games altogether.

 

[BlackWych]

See the upcoming Book of Erotic Fantasy for details....

 

[Monte At Home]

1. Probably.

2. "any part of the body... removed from the whole reverts back to the original form." So unless they are already genetically compatible, no. (This is why a polymorphed dragon in the form of a human, getting together with a human, still produces a half dragon)

3. I'd treat it as a part of the polymorphed creature's body.

4. Not sure that it changes anything.

 

[Centaur]

2. "any part of the body... removed from the whole reverts back to the original form."

Heaven forbit I should correct Monte Cook but in case number 2 above, nothing is leavng the body of the polymorphed creature.

However I do see your point with regards to points 3 and 4. It makes these two possibilities mute.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

All of these are going to come down to a dm call, but I'll give what my calls would be.

For the Purpose of argument, we'll keep the discussion to the use of Polymorph Other.

First, can a person under the effects of a polymorph spell become pregnant?

For example:
1) A Female Elf is Polymorphed into a female Gnome.
2) A male human is Polymorphed into a female human.

In either of these cases, could the person become pregnant?

I would say yes in both cases. If the resulting fetus goes to term; in the case of the first I would give the child traces of both gnomish and elvish ancestry from the mother. In the case of the second, what happens if a dispell magic is cast of the pregnant "female" prior to childbirth : I would say that if the fetus is full term it would be "expelled" and possibly suffer shock, and if not would simply become part of the (again) male creatures body. The third option, of having a male with a soon to be dead and necrotic fetus stuck somewhere in his body cavity is kinda gross.

Second, Could a person induce pregnancy while under the effects of a polymorph spell?

For example:
3) A Male Elf polymorphed into a Male Gnome.
4) A Female Human Polymorphed into a Male Human.

In either of these cases, could the person induce pregnancy?

If pregnancy is possible under 1 or 2 above, what would happen to the fetus when the spell is reversed? What happens to the child when the pregnancy comes to term?

I would certainly allow both polymorphed creatures to induce preganancy, and again in the case of a change of species, aspects of the orriginal species would be found in a resulting child. The child would also always be female if you wanna be psuedo genetics about it. (makes note to have a npc who is a lesbian love child concived with one mother polymorphed... maybe thats how amazons reproduce... high level druid = father/mother to the next generation....)

Third, what happens to an existing fetus when Polymorph is cast onto someone who is already pregnant? Is the person protected from the effects by some mystical force to protect the child or is the fetus subject to the same transformation as the mother (i.e.. transformed to a fetal version of what mom is transformed into)? Or is it not? What happens to the child if the pregnancy goes to term while under the influence of the pregnancy?

in the case of a female to female transformation, certainly a fetus would become a fetal whatever. If brought to term as a whatever, it would either have half breed traits, or be a whatever which a dispell magic would return to its mother's orriginal form depending on dm whim combined with how much of the pregnancy was spend in the polymorphed form. If a pregnant female is transformed into a male, the fetus is subsumed for the durration of transformation.

Fourth, what if the form the person is polymorphed into is of a different Type than that of the persons natural form. For example, a humanoid is transformed into a giant or a dragon.

We already know from the rules that Dragons and some Outsiders can assume compatible forms to breed with humans etc., what about the other way around or is this a factor of their supernatural existence or power?

As above, the child of a polymorphed creature would have traits of both its matural and magically induced form. Count me also with those who say "compatability" of dragons et al is from their shapechanging and thus moot here.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Kahuna Burger]

2. "any part of the body... removed from the whole reverts back to the original form." So unless they are already genetically compatible, no. (This is why a polymorphed dragon in the form of a human, getting together with a human, still produces a half dragon)

Have to disagree. If a substance meant to leave the creatures body does so it retains its form. Otherwise, creatures polymorphed into spiders could not spin webs, no polymorphed creature would have working poison, etc. Sperm could be directly compared to poison in this case - produced naturally in the polyed creature, becomes a seperate substance while still in the polyed creature, and leaves the creature normally without being dispelled back into some unknown bodily fluid of the orriginal.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Hypersmurf]

Otherwise, creatures polymorphed into spiders could not spin webs

That's right - It's an [Ex] ability.

no polymorphed creature would have working poison,

That's right - It's an [Ex] ability.

-Hyp.