D&D 5E Polymorph

[Li Shenron]

First, something like "You can only turn yourself into a creature of the same level* as yours or less" can help against players abusing Polymorph for combat.

*level or CR or whatever, depending on the edition...

Second, a limit on the number of different species of monsters you can turn into can help against abuse for out-of-combat, or more generally trying to get a vast array of special abilities.

This limit could be in the form of "You know how to turn yourself into X different forms every Y caster levels".

 

[the Jester]

A good method for limiting polymorph might be to cap the amount it can improve your AC, attacks, etc. Then list what powers and abilities you can take on.

So maybe you turn into something that looks like a troll, but you only gain Str 16 instead of Str 20.

This also allows for the whole "If you cast this spell with a higher level slot..." thing to enable more powerful polymorph abilities. So maybe if you want to regenerate, you need to use a lvl 7 slot.

 

[Stalker0]

Long term, as long as you give polymorph free reign to turn into new monsters that will be released....it will always be a source of abuse.

Monster designers should not be handicapped in their monster designs because polymorph can pick them up for abuse. So to me, that leave a few options:

1) Polymorph has specific forms. This is the late 3.5 way to balance it. No matter what, the caster has a select lists of forms to choose. Since the list is known, balance can be assured.
2) Remove the "combat power" aspect of polymorph. Leave in the disguise factor and the offensive factor (aka turning someone into a rat), but removing the benefits that the form could give to a person. This is actually the polymorph that occurs most often in fantasy literature.

 

[Celebrim]

I've haven't got my shapechange tree fully worked out yet either, but the general approach I'm going with is that higher level shape change spells let you duplicate cummulatively the effects of lower level ones.

So for example, with the 4th level version you can duplicate cummulatively things like Enlarge/Reduce Self, Diguise Self, Alter Self, Body Weaponry, Spider Climb, Porpoise Swim, Hawk's Flight, Carapace, etc. (The spells you don't recognize are home brew also.) This would let you look like whatever you wanted, a Troll perhaps, but doesn't pick up the problems of gaining the powers and abilities of an arbitary monster. The range of things you can do is restricted to a set of defined and individually balanced concepts. It also neatly handles questions like, "How can you change into monsters you've never really seen?" and "What happens if you want to change into a completely unique form?"

For things like Polymorph Other, I'm more inclined to go back to 1st editions restrictions that made that strictly something you did to enemies, rather than something that you did to buff your allies. Polymorphing your 10th level fighter buddy into a troll is a lot less appealing if there is a good chance he turns into a hostile NPC when you do so.

 

[steeldragons]

I wouldn't even go so far as to cap the HD of the monster with the caster, i.e. "You can't turn into a huge ancient dragon because you're only 7th level and they have 20 [or whatever] HD."

To my knowledge, the whole polymorph thing still only lets you be you...as it were. If you turn into a dragon, you're a huge (or colossal or whatever the size category is these days), you can fly, you can breathe fire (or acid or whatever), get the dragonfear aura (since you are, now, a dragon sitting in front of these people), take on their AC...but you're still only a 7th level caster.

That is [probably most importantly], you still only have your HP...you don't get the hypothetical extra 5HD (or whatever it might be) or other non-innate powers/abilities. Where an ancient dragon has lived for thousands of years and spell-casting abilities, polymorphing into one doesn't grant you extra spells or knowledge. Will you be able to do things you can't normally do? Sure. That's kinda the point of turning into something else. You'll be tougher...but not going to be "unkillable." [is that even a word?]

The chips are down, your caster's lost half their HP. One of the party fighter's is down with the cleric tending them...and 20 reinforcements to the hobgoblin guards have just burst into the throne room. The wizard polymorphs into a troll (not the least of which for the regeneration to his HP, but possibly might get a better AC also) and wades in next to the dwarf paladin (who thinks she's gonna take on the lot of them herself) and starts swiping troll claws and rending his way through as many guards as he can. Still only has his normal HP (but now getting +2 back per round) and his normal chances to hit/"BAB" or however attack rolls are being handled.

I'd be more than happy limiting druidic shapechanging back similar to their 1e origins and saying that Druid shapechanging can only be to normal animals...not magical beasts or other humanoids...Add in humanoids as a higher level ability...and/or giant versions of normal animals ...maybe add in magical beasts at a very high level...or not. But the restrictions of above apply. Take on the natural abilities and AC, but your HP and attack rolls are still the same.

I always thought polymorph was very powerful...and always thought it should be. So, if you use it, you should be more powerful than the level you are. Fighting some Frost giants? Turn into a fire giant or a hellhound. Why would anyone want to polymorph into a goblin in a combat situation?

I guess the "grey area" comes in with special abilites and where they sit...i.e. I believe in 1e you could turn into dragon and fly...but not breathe fire (or whatever the breath weapon of your dragon choice was). That never made sense to me. Or a troll and regenerating...Are those "natural abilities" or are those "magical add on things"? I say natural, but that's how I view/define them in my game world. If you turn into a fire giant, of COURSE you are immune to fire damage!

Unfortunately, this leaves the field wide open for certain people to get into a snit because it could be viewed as a "case by case/DM's call thing" and they believe nothing should be a case-by-case/DM's call thing.

I do like Celebrim's suggestion for Polymorph Other. Or even, I don't know if it was 1e or BECM, but I believe polymorphing other was explicitly only allowed to turn the Other into something small and harmless. Toads or bugs or otherwise easy to ignore or step on things...like, no bigger than a house cat (which could easily kill low level people in 1e and BECM. hahaha. But that's besides the point).

 

[Aenghus]

The designers of a generic polymorph spell can't anticipate future monster design, and probably won't be familiar with all the monsters in print in the first place. Canny players will seek out the most broken printed monsters that are valid for polymorphing into(I certainly did).

So the only way I can see polymorph vaguely balanced, is to split it into utility polymorphing and combat polymorphing spells, with the latter having specific combat stats printed in the spell. Utility polymorphing grants no combat power but allows changing into animals and birds, gaining their movement modes, which makes it great for disguise,spying and travel(potentially violating the rogue role in the process). Combat polymorphs would probably allow transforming into a single creature, as in the "fixed" polymorph spells of late 3.5 ed - Given fixed combat stats, allowing some control of the appearance of the combat form is appealing, but easy to get wrong, as players will try to give creatures wings or other form of flight, justify multiple melee attacks with extra limbs etc etc.

 

[Celebrim]

I wouldn't even go so far as to cap the HD of the monster with the caster

That's not remotely far enough, for two reasons. One, it makes polymorph unmanageable in play because it requires completely rebuilding the player character every time a new form is assumed. Secondly, because it makes the effect of allowing a player of a given level to polymorph into a creature the tightest constraint on monster design, in that it must be the most important consideration made before publishing a monster.

The real solution is simple. Prior to 9th level, no shapechanging spell without dramatic drawbacks that limit frequency of use (like, your character must save or suck, permanent loss of XP per usage, etc.) lets you turn into anything at all. All of them only allow you to turn into the form of a monster, with the majority of your character sheet being unchanged by this except in predictable manners balanced with other available buffs of the same level. You can look like a troll, and even gain abilities that make you more trollish, but sans Shapechange at 9th level you can't turn into a troll.

Period.

This is an example IMO of something that 1st edition largely got right, and the designers of 3rd edition - overjoyed by the new toys at their disposal - never really understood.

 

[TwoSix]

Just get rid of Polymorph. Replace it with spells that allow you to turn into one specific kind of creature. Put the stats for the creature in the spell. Changing of shape is traditionally in fantasy a big deal, and shouldn't be the province of a single spell. Its own school, or even its own class would be more appropriate.

 

[Texicles]

So the only way I can see polymorph vaguely balanced, is to split it into utility polymorphing and combat polymorphing spells, with the latter having specific combat stats printed in the spell...

I don't know about fixed stats for "combat polymorph," (as in, I haven't thought about it enough to have an opinion, not I disagree without being willing to say as much), but "utility polymorph" would be, mechanically, pretty easy to design. Say something like, "this spell takes 5 minutes to cast, and reduces the cast time by 1 minute every 5th level." Even at 20, you're still looking at a minute to cast.

Doing something like that would give a narrative justification for something being non-combat (i.e. it takes too darn long to cast), without making a gameist rule about what you can and can't cast in combat. I'm just spitballing here.


In general, I would prefer to see polymorph stay away from granting the strength/attacks of whatever form you take on. I think it should be a pretty flawless disguise, give you things like movement, senses and AC, but not the ability to burn villages, etc.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I think that the Polymorph spell should only be able to turn you into ordinary animals. Turning into anything else, like a troll, should require a different, specific spell IMO.