Polymorphing outsiders and undead

[Iron_Chef]

Okay, say you want to bargain for the services of an intelligent outsider or undead and have access to the polymorph other spell... In return for the creature's service, you promise to polymorph it into a more powerful type of outsider or undead. Would this be legal and would the results make it a good deal for the creature? It wouldn't get the new form's supernatural or spell-like abilities, but could benefit from heightened ability scores, extraordinary abilities and perhaps perceived respect and standing amongst its peers... This "tampering" in infernal heirarchies could be seen as a serious offense by the powers normally responsible for promoting lesser fiends, circumventing their authority...

Other polymorph questions:

Could you polymorph an undead spawn under the control of a "master" creature of its type into another type of undead, or into its original mortal form and would this then free it from the control of its "master" since it is now something other than a spawn the "master" could have created? How would this work if the creature retains its own type (undead)? Say you wanted to "save" someone turned into a vampire spawn... would this polymorph usage merely create an undead but normal appearing version of the original mortal? But with the undead subtype, and thus immortal?

Could you polymorph an evil outsider into a larva and use it to bargain with night hags or other fiends as "spiritual" currency?

Could you take a larva and polymorph it back into its mortal form, thus freeing a soul from its eternal punishment? Again, probably something the powers that be would frown upon...

 

[Piratecat]

Undead are immune to anything with a fortitude save that doesn't include objects. That includes polymorph other. Polymorph any object would work, though.

Anyways, changing something's outer form won't do anything to its spirit or spiritual obligations. Interesting idea, though.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Could an intelligent undead choose to fail his fort save to receive the benefits of the spell?

 

[Staffan]

No, since they're immune to the effect. The stuff just doesn't affect them.

 

[Grazzt]

Could an intelligent undead choose to fail his fort save to receive the benefits of the spell?

I would say no because undead are immune to effects that require a Fort save (unless they work on objects). They dont even really get a save (so they cant choose to fail it), the effect just doesnt work at all.

 

[Iron_Chef]

Hmm. Okay, I thought it said you could polymorph something into an outsider or undead only if it had that type to begin with... maybe it was in Tome & Blood?

Also, nobody said anything about my polymorphing outsiders questions. Could you polymorph an outsider "up" or "down" the planar food chain? "Up" as a reward for services rendered, and "down" as a way to "scam" free larva to bargain with as spiritual currency with night hags and the like? Or "down" to larva and then kill it and cast raise dead or resurrection to free a soul from Hell or someplace bad? Granted, in most cases, you'd have no idea who's soul you were freeing (which could create some interesting adventures), but could you do this?

 

[Piratecat]

Nope. As I said, polymorphing something doesn't change its essence or personality; a guardinal polymorphed into a deva is just a guardinal that looks like a deva. It isn't actually a deva, any more than a human polymorphed into a troll is a troll.

Same thing on the lower planes. You could polymorph a cornugon into a larvae and try to sell him to a night hag, but that's going to be one pissed off larvae with a whole lot of spell-like abilities still at its disposal. It wouldn't actually be a larvae.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Yes. They retain their spell-like abilities, and fiends - especially the bigger ones - got a couple of them. You know, ever since the Sorcerer IMC got Polymorph other, people have to be very cautious around small, fluffy animals - especially if they just teleportet onto that lovely meadow.....

 

[Dingleberry]

Could an intelligent undead choose to fail his fort save to receive the benefits of the spell?

Yes. See PHB p. 150, Voluntarily Giving Up a Saving Throw:

"A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell's result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic (for example, an elf's resistance to sleep effects) can suppress this if he or she wants to."

An elf's resistance to sleep is, per PHB p. 16, an "immunuty" - just as an undead's resistance to polymorph.

 

[satori01]

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