Poor sword and shield?

[FreeTheSlaves]

Well we've seen an improvement on two weapon and two handed melee fighting styles, the question is (will) does sword and board stack up?

I think it was Monte Cook who said that sword and shield was the best style in 3.0. You can't sniff at more AC but what about the damage?

Ime sword and board was always the poor cousin in damage and I would try to get an energy weapon early. Is there an issue here and if so, what solution?

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

I disagree that sword & board is inheriently weak.

A low levels, the AC is vaulable. At high levels, the shield acts as an extra armor location for the special item powers (e.g. Fortification). And, in a pinch, you can always shield-bash.

If you're comparing damage output, obviously sword & board is going to come out weak. But then you're ignoring the extra puishment the 2-weapon and 2-handed-weapon guys are taking.

Also, there's the spined shield. This is an incredibly useful item. It's a bow and a shield combined! You don't have to switch weapons out in the middle of combat when a ranged target suddenly presents itself.

 

[hong]

Well we've seen an improvement on two weapon and two handed melee fighting styles, the question is (will) does sword and board stack up?

I think it was Monte Cook who said that sword and shield was the best style in 3.0. You can't sniff at more AC but what about the damage?

What about the damage?

Ime sword and board was always the poor cousin in damage and I would try to get an energy weapon early. Is there an issue here and if so, what solution?

The solution is not to use sword and shield if you're so fussed about damage.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

So Hong, are you saying that taking AC, # attacks/rd and damage into account that sword and shield remains competitive?

I know what you are saying BiggusGeekus@Work, we played a one off 20th session and the fighter had fortification and spell resistance due to his shield. Thing is that that extra 'slot' took up a hunk of wealth that could've been used, say on displacement.

I'm probably just sufferin from sword and board blues and I've got power attack and no cleave (yet).

 

[hong]

So Hong, are you saying that taking AC, # attacks/rd and damage into account that sword and shield remains competitive?

If you are playing a guy with a sword and shield, your schtick is to stand in one spot and be an immovable wall of defense. You laugh as the bad guys attempt to hit you.

It is not your schtick to launch into the bad guys and turn the battlefield into a charnel house. That's the lunkhead-barbarian-with-greatsword's schtick. Do not complain if you don't manage to deal out as much damage as the lunkhead-barbarian-with-greatsword, because said barbarian is probably also taking a lot more damage than you.

 

[Sejs]

Longsword + Large Shield w/ Shield Spike.

Feats:
2-Weapon Fighting (3.5e version.. ambiwhat?)
Shield Expert
Improved Shield Bash
Shield Charge.

So let's see.. I have a 1d8 19-20/x2 for my main hand, a 1d6 20/x2 for my off hand, I get +2 Ac all the time, the off hand is considdered a light weapon despite it being on a large shield, when I shield bash I can shove someone back 5' as if with a Bullrush, but without any risk to myself and I don't have to go into their hex, and if I charge with my shield rather than my sword I do double damage. Oh, and when I do hit them, they're knocked back 5' as per normal with my shield bashes.


Problems? I see no problems.

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

we played a one off 20th session and the fighter had fortification and spell resistance due to his shield. Thing is that that extra 'slot' took up a hunk of wealth that could've been used, say on displacement.

Exactly. You're making a trade-off. But look at the party as a single unit instead of putting the melee to one side.

A 2-handed-weapon does more damage than sword & board. True. The shield "slot" could be used for other things. True. But while the fighter is not taking damage, the cleric is not healing him and can therefore be doing other things, like summoning a celestial animal to attack the monster's flank or even (GASP) doing his own damage in meele.

The shield changes the dynamic of how the party operates in combat.

 

[Stalker0]

Also consider that we don't know the shield ac bonuses yet. And tower shields may become the new fav of sword and boarders. Two handers get PA, TWF gets TWF and TW defense, and Sword/Board get tower shields. Hopefully, it will all balance out.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Good point Stalker0, should be interesting to see how the tower shield is described and statted in 3.5.

If like NWN, it is just a huge body shield.

Could be good people

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Note, however, that "Tower Shield Proficiency" just became a separate feat in 3.5. It may be better, but it looks like you'll have to burn a feat to use it.

Two Weapon Defense also closes the gap a bit (with +1 AC) between the TWF and sword-and-boarder, at least until the SaB gets a magic shield.