Possession: how evil is this?

[Voadam]

I did a quick search through my core rulebooks and I couldn't find explicit proof to what I'm about to say, but there is plenty of implied information.

Aren't undead (even skeletons and zombies) 'powered' by negative energy, from the Negative Energy Plane? That's why good clerics, channeling positive energy, can turn and destroy them; and evil clerics channeling negative energy can rebuke and bolster them.

I don't have time right now to look the connections between positive energy and good alignment vs. negative energy and evil alignment. Maybe someone else has or can?

Quasqueton

Yes they are, negative energy heals them:

from the srd:

Undead with no Intelligence scores cannot heal damage on their own, though they can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict wounds spell) can heal undead creatures.

 

[Voadam]

The spell is evil, however it creates "neutral" undead.

Which detect as evil because they are undead and the spell detect evil says undead triggers as evil.

 

[guido1999]

This is getting circular. Refer back to what I said about interprting based on the "letter" of the law and the "spirit" of the law.

We have different views and there is nothing wrong with that. IYC the spell works one way and IMC it works another way.

 

[Quasqueton]

I side with those who say that detect evil shows undead of any alignment.

For one, the spell description says so (as has been clearly pointed out above).

Also notice that detect good, chaos, law all say in their spell description, "It does not detect undead."

Are you going to argue that Good undead show up with detect good because the name of the spell is "good", despite the description directly stating otherwise?

Hmmm. Are Good undead a blind spot to these divinations?

Quasqueton

 

[Hypersmurf]

A Lawful Neutral cleric of a Lawful Evil deity registers strongly on a Detect Evil spell. He's a direct mortal representative of that evil deity on the Material Plane. He's a channel for the deity's evil and will.

A Lawful Neutral Wizard who worships a Lawful Evil deity doesn't have that direct connection, so doesn't register.

It's not a typo, it's intentional.

It fits with the restrictions on clerics casting spells with Alignment descriptors. That LN cleric of an LE deity cannot cast spells with the [Chaos] or [Good] descriptors, because he cannot cast spells opposed to his alignment or to his deity's alignment.

-Hyp.

 

[guido1999]

Are you going to argue that Good undead show up with detect good because the name of the spell is "good", despite the description directly stating otherwise?

Absolutely! They have a good alignment.

This is a great point about "wording" of spells. Because according to strict interpretation of the spell description, you cannot detect a good aligned undead with a detect good spell.

That means also that you cannot detect a CE vampire with a detect chaos spell.

Hmmm...maybe the real reason why "undead" is even listed under the detect evil spell description was to illustrate that the have a stronger than normal evil aura than say an evil fighter and not to illustrate that the spell detects undead in general?

 

[AuraSeer]

I focus less on the "letter" of the law, and more on the "spirit" of it.

You're in the wrong place then. There's a whole other forum for inventing your own rules.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hmmm...maybe the real reason why "undead" is even listed under the detect evil spell description was to illustrate that the have a stronger than normal evil aura than say an evil fighter and not to illustrate that the spell detects undead in general?

They do have a stronger aura than an evil fighter of the same hit dice, but they spell carefully notes "Evil Elemental", "Evil Creature", "Evil Outsider". Undead are not so specified.

The SRD doesn't mention the line about specifically not detecting undead with Detect Good, etc. In its absence, I would assume a 10HD CE vampire would score a 5 on Detect Evil (Undead Creature, HD/2) and a 2 on Detect Chaos (Chaotic Creature, HD/5). But if the PHB does indeed specify that Detect Chaos cannot detect undead, then it wouldn't show up at all.

-Hyp.

 

[Voadam]

Also notice that detect good, chaos, law all say in their spell description, "It does not detect undead."

Are you going to argue that Good undead show up with detect good because the name of the spell is "good", despite the description directly stating otherwise?

Hmmm. Are Good undead a blind spot to these divinations?

Quasqueton

Is the PH different from the SRD on this? I don't see the undead part in there

Detect Good
Divination
Level: Clr 1, Rgr 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Quarter circle emanating from the character to the extreme of the range
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
The character can sense the presence of good. The amount of information revealed depends on how long the character studies a particular area or subject:
1st Round: Presence or absence of good.
2nd Round: Number of good auras (creatures, objects, or spells) in the area and the strength of the strongest good aura present. If the character is of evil alignment, the strongest good aura’s strength is "overwhelming" (see below), and the strength is at least twice the character's character level, the character is stunned for 1 round and the spell ends. While the character is stunned, the character can’t act, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, and attackers gain +2 bonuses to attack the character.
3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If an aura is outside the character's line of sight, then the character discerns its direction but not its exact location.
Aura Strength: An aura’s good power and strength depend on the type of good creature or object that the character is detecting and its HD, caster level, or (in the case of a cleric) class level.
Creature/Object Evil Power
--------------- ----------
Good creature HD / 5
Good elemental HD / 2
Good magic item
or spell Caster level / 2
Good outsider HD
Cleric of an
good deity Level
Good Power Aura Strength
---------- -------------
Lingering Dim
1 or less Faint
2–4 Moderate
5–10 Strong
11+ Overwhelming
If an aura falls into more than one strength category, the spell indicates the stronger of the two.
Length Aura Lingers: How long the aura lingers depends on its original strength:
Original Strength Duration
----------------- --------
Faint 1d6 minutes
Moderate 1d6 X 10 minutes
Strong 1d6 hours
Overwhelming 1d6 days
Remember that healing potions, antidotes, and similar beneficial items are not good; this spell does not detect them.
Note: Each round, the character can turn to detect things in a new area. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

 

[Quasqueton]

I've got the second printing PHB in front of me.

Detect Chaos - last sentence: "It does not detect undead."

Detect Good - middle sentence: "It does not detect undead."

Detect Law - last sentence: "It does not detect undead."

Perhaps the SRD shows some revisionist rules?

[Edit: But note that "Good Undead" is not listed under the strengths for detect good.]

Quasqueton