Potential issue with overlapping DR

[pawsplay]

I read stack as they do not get any other DR if they already have one. YMMV. I think Jason needs to put a FAQ out.

-- david
Papa.DRB

Stack already has a specific meaning though, and by default DRs of that sort do not stack, they overlap.

 

[billd91]

No one thinks they stack. The problem is the overlap, you've basically granted creatures unbeatable DR presumably unintentionally on the part of the game designers. It is nearly impossible to have a both good AND evil attack. In my games, I've long disallowed such things from even being possible. A simple fix is not allowing non-evil creatures (or good creatures, if you want to be more generous) from gaining the bloodline benefit.

It's difficult to beat, but not impossible, even without a +5 magic weapon. High damage characters are going to be blowing over DR numbers frequently. The protection the summoned creature gains will be nice and improve the creature's utility overall, but I can't see it being a game breaker.

 

[pawsplay]

I think I am pretty comfortable saying this bonus should not apply to creatures of the opposite alignment.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's difficult to beat, but not impossible, even without a +5 magic weapon. High damage characters are going to be blowing over DR numbers frequently. The protection the summoned creature gains will be nice and improve the creature's utility overall, but I can't see it being a game breaker.

When I say "beat" I mean ignore the damage reduction. I know for many DR will be a speed bump anyway. That's not the point. The point is, unless it's DR x /--, there's supposedly some weapon or attack out there that can ignore that DR. I find it incredibly distasteful that the rules would even allow a creature to have DR of opposing alignments at the same time. Maybe it's not game breaking. I don't care. It offends my sensibilities.

 

[billd91]

When I say "beat" I mean ignore the damage reduction. I know for many DR will be a speed bump anyway. That's not the point. The point is, unless it's DR x /--, there's supposedly some weapon or attack out there that can ignore that DR. I find it incredibly distasteful that the rules would even allow a creature to have DR of opposing alignments at the same time. Maybe it's not game breaking. I don't care. It offends my sensibilities.

Would it similarly offend your sensibilities if an infernal creature of some sort (with DR x/good) were wearing a Mantle of Faith (which gives DR 5/evil) that he had looted from the corpse of an enemy? With either case, the summoning of the abyssal sorcerer or a mantle of faith, there's a DR overlaid on top of the creature's nature by an external source, not inherent to the creature itself. As such, it doesn't bother me.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Would it similarly offend your sensibilities if an infernal creature of some sort (with DR x/good) were wearing a Mantle of Faith (which gives DR 5/evil) that he had looted from the corpse of an enemy? With either case, the summoning of the abyssal sorcerer or a mantle of faith, there's a DR overlaid on top of the creature's nature by an external source, not inherent to the creature itself. As such, it doesn't bother me.

Yes, it would bother me, in fact. Hence why I said in my games I go so far as to make it a rule you can't have opposing alignment DR.

And besides, mantle of faith is ridiculously expensive and a high level item, and for about 1/4 what the sorcerer's granted DR value would be by the time you'd pick it up. It would be an issue far less often than...every time the sorcerer summons.

 

[Starbuck_II]

No one thinks they stack. The problem is the overlap, you've basically granted creatures unbeatable DR presumably unintentionally on the part of the game designers. It is nearly impossible to have a both good AND evil attack. In my games, I've long disallowed such things from even being possible. A simple fix is not allowing non-evil creatures (or good creatures, if you want to be more generous) from gaining the bloodline benefit.

I know you houseruled it not possible, but in Core (non-houseruled) a +1 Holy/Unholy weapon is legal.

So it isn't that hard. Heck, a +1 Holy weapon with Aligned Weapon spell cast on it can also gain ability to pierce DR/Good.

The ability to be good at both alignment has been there since 2nd at least (there was that Neutrality sword of Balance that hurt any aligned creature back then).

 

[pawsplay]

Would it similarly offend your sensibilities if an infernal creature of some sort (with DR x/good) were wearing a Mantle of Faith (which gives DR 5/evil) that he had looted from the corpse of an enemy? With either case, the summoning of the abyssal sorcerer or a mantle of faith, there's a DR overlaid on top of the creature's nature by an external source, not inherent to the creature itself. As such, it doesn't bother me.

At least in that case, the infernal sorcerer would still summon primarily infernal creatures.