Potential Problems In A New AD&D Campaign

[SHARK]

Greetings!

I have recently decided to return to my gaming roots, and begin a campaign using the "Old School" AD&D rules. I have just about everything from back in the day, and while I played AD&D for many years--it has been many years since I played an AD&D campaign.

Having said that, I am tremendously excited about the new campaign, and I am enjoying the free-form approach, relative simplicity, speed, and generally non-rules-intensive system. However, as I proceed with launching the new AD&D campaign, set within my campaign world that I have been running and developing...since I last played AD&D, some 20 years ago--several things struck me as potential problems, system-wise.

(1) Race-based limitations on character classes. QUESTION: What are the merits of *keeping* these limitations intact? What are the drawbacks and problems associated with *REMOVING* them from the campaign?

(2) Race-based limitations on Level Advancement of particular classes. QUESTION: What are the merits of *keeping* these limitations intact? What are the drawbacks and problems associated with *REMOVING* them from the campaign?

Thank you for your thoughtful and considered responses!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Particle_Man]

Well, Half-elves in phb have a "niche-protection" of being the only PC cleric/magic-user types, balanced by their low level limitation. If you remove class restriction (as Unearthed Arcana did) on races, but keep level limits (as Unearthed Arcana did), half-elves will suck more (as half-elves did).

Half-orc multiclass thieves were restricted by armor but *not* by weapons, unlike other multiclass thieves. Don't know if that is a big deal or not. But a backstab with a 2-handed sword will hurt. Half-orcs were the only race to have level limitations as a thief.

Partly it will be genre convention. If you remove class choice and level limits by race, then only the racial limits on intelligence give one a reason to have fewer dwarf or half-orc wizards, by percentage, than elf wizards. If you are ok with that, then that is not an issue, of course.

[Edit: I am talking about 1st ed., mind you]

 

[frankthedm]

level limits were supposed to balance out the benefits demi humans had over humans. Thing is they only matter IF the game/characters get that high.

 

[Particle_Man]

As another option, you could give xp bonuses to humans, and to other races that advance in "preferred" classes (where you decide what is preferred).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Having played an AD&D game that has lasted to the present day, I can say...

(1) Race-based limitations on character classes. QUESTION: What are the merits of *keeping* these limitations intact? What are the drawbacks and problems associated with *REMOVING* them from the campaign?

We kept those, though we did use some other MC combos that appeared in Dragon.

Keeping the limitations helps define and protect niches for certain character designs. Removing them, though, shouldn't cause any real problems, as 3Ed revealed.

(2) Race-based limitations on Level Advancement of particular classes. QUESTION: What are the merits of *keeping* these limitations intact? What are the drawbacks and problems associated with *REMOVING* them from the campaign?

These we ditched partially. If a PC had exceptional stats ( 17+) in all of the primary stats for a class, much like a dual-classing human, we let the PC continue advancing in that class.

 

[green slime]

W00t SHARK! Hows it hanging together? Wish I could join in.

I ran a campaign from ca '90 to '98, with all sorts of changes to the Race limitations and multiclass restrictions.

We were using variant rules from the original Unearthed Arcana, as well as house rules which allowed demihumans to achieve higher levels based on high stats, it wasn't really a problem. We got to around 12th level, when the issue was starting to loom large, but we never got past that point as life come along and made other plans for us. Originally, they were all Elves or ½-elves (I allowed half elven paladins) with a common background. Over time, as the group adventured across the planes of existance, humans and dwarves joined their crusade against evil as well, and the most important issue seems to have been fulfilled: we all had fun.

The group consisted of:
Wood Elf 9th Ranger / 12th Magic User
?? Elf 8th Ranger/ 12th Druid
½-elf Paladin (died at 5th level)
Deep Dwarf 7th Fighter / 8th Cleric
Drow* Elf 1e Bard (8th Fighter // 9th Thief // 2nd Bard Dual class)
High Elf Cavalier (level varied due to nasty fights vs Undead)

*magically cursed

Because of their choice of characters, we had a lot of wilderness adventures, and interaction with the Elven nations of Greyhawk and Faerûn.

Over time, the game definitely gave a feel of waning might of the Elves, their desperate attempts to maintain their borders against encroaching evil, and classic battles against their evil drow brethren.

 

[green slime]

In hindsight, looking over the campaign, it is obvious why so many players chose to play elves; for us, though, it mattered not. The original premise for the campaign was for a band of elves, against the growing influence of demons and their lackeys.

The rules of 1e, and even 2e, is sleighted towards elves. In 1e, this was reigned in by the strict level limitations, and multiclass limitations. When a campaign was starting up, this isn't an issue: no one rolling a character for a 1e campaign was really concerned about if their character was going to survive until 10th level. If your character made the end of the adventure, he was hero. So it only unfairly comes into play as the campaign survives, and new players join. Do you really want the old scarred veterans of the campaign to hang up their carefully nutured characters, because they've hit 5th-7th level, and the single class human newbies are storming past?

 

[Baron Opal]

In general, I have found that it is more advantageous to be a multiclassed whatever than a human whatever. Given how the experience points work the amount of experience it takes to get to be a 10th level whatever you can be an elven 9/9. If level limits are removed, and a game reaches those levels, that becomes an issue. Giving humans a 10% bonus to experience delays this effect by about a level since the difference between 200,000 and 220,000 experience is really negligible.

I have experimented with having multiclassed characters having major and minor classes. The minor class may only be 2/3rds the level of the major class.

Let's see...

All characters may advance to 9th level. Only those with a prime requisite of 16+ can advance to 12th. Humans are able to advance without meeting this requirement.

The character must have 12+ in the prime requisites of both classes in order to multiclass. Split experience evenly between classes. Use the best of each class, noting that bardic spells can’t be cast in plate or scale and magic-user spells can’t cast in armor at all. Hit points are 1d4 per level of the highest leveled class, +1 if one of the classes has a d6 hit die, +2 for a d8. Main class may progress to 9th level, secondary class to 5th. If the character has a 16+ in the prime requisite for the secondary class, the character can advance to 7th level.

Not as clear as I would like, but it's a start. Clearly, these rules haven't been vetted yet.

 

[Particle_Man]

In general, I have found that it is more advantageous to be a multiclassed whatever than a human whatever. Given how the experience points work the amount of experience it takes to get to be a 10th level whatever you can be an elven 9/9.

If level limits are removed, the xp dynamic changes once characters hit "name" levels.

Of course there are some classes that have their own limits (assassin, druid, monk in 1st ed. Both hard limits and soft limits (at higher levels you have to beat the guy who was there first, and then you have to fight off other contenders to keep the levels you won)).

 

[Herzog]

If I'm not mistaken, the (2e)AD&D rules contained an optional rule to allow high level demi-humans to keep progressing in their levels past their max level, but at a slower (half) rate. Although I'm not sure about the balance-issues, I think my AD&D DM uses that rule (mind you, we play about once a year, so progression is VERY slow.....).