Power Attack offset

[Wyvernhand]

What are you guys fighting that take 4-5 hits at 2d6+6? That's an average of 13 points per hit, meaning most foes have 50-60 HP...at level 1? Dang...even 2 HD monsters would crumble under an average hit with a greatsword, are you guys fighting CR 5 enemies at level 1?

 

[Omegaxicor]

either you misunderstand the difference between "Attack" and "Hit" or you haven't read my post...

 

[Petey7]

Most CR 1 and lower monsters have about 15 AC (meaning you should hit 50% of the time with your +5 to attack) and less than 13 hit points. 4-5 attacks shouldn't be necessary unless no one else is attacking your opponent, assuming you do less than half damage on each actual hit. Truth is PA is useless in and of itself at lower levels. The main thing it is good for at that point is gaining access to other feats. I've never uses PA myself but have played with people that use it in lower level games. Convincing them to not use it made battles go A LOT faster. When you reach mid to high levels is becomes a lot more useful, because he can sometimes afford to have less accuracy. Sometimes.

 

[kitcik]

I almost forgot to mention the absolute best offset of all.

Let's see if I can find unanimity on ENWorld...

Get a BARD in the party!!

 

[HoboGod]

I don't think the OP is speaking of level 1-2, this thread is about pre-Shock Trooper, which is anything below 6th level. I imagine the OP wants to be using that Power Attack feat for levels 3-5 when a CR 4 Rhinoceros encounter (avg 76 hp) is a realistic possibility.

 

[Dandu]

Charging is a great standby. Also, making sure the party caster has a way of Greasing, Stunning, Blinding, or otherwise incapacitating the enemy. That'll drop their AC right quick.

 

[akbearfoot]

1st-6th level is when melee combatants are the strongest compared to all the casters.

I too am curious what you are fighting in that level range that doesn't die in 2-3 hits taking 2d6+6. And that's a pretty lowball number. A barbarian1 with a 16 strength could PA at +6 for 2d6+9. That kills an ogre in 2 hits. Mostly the things that do have a high AC are even weaker in terms of how many hits they can take.

Is there an important detail missing? Like its a solo campaign or something? The DM always uses dragons/high powered outsiders?

Mechanically speaking, in a fair encounter, any full BAB class should be hitting on their first attack roughly 70-80%. In a 'tough' encounter they should still be hitting 50% of the time. A simple Bless spell + flanking still nets you a hit bonus at 4th level. If you frequently need higher than a 15 to hit, then either your DM is deliberately trying to kill you or he's doing something wrong. As a 4th level Fighter(probably the worst full BAB class in 3.5) You should be looking at a +10 hit bonus(18 str, weapon Focus, MW or +1 weapon). AC 20 is a lot in the CR 4-6 range. If a monster 'looks' heavily armored or very agile, you might skip power attacking until you get an idea how hard it is to hit. But most things should be a barn door at that level.

In our Pathfinder game we're at 5th level currently but it's a large party, and we use good tactics. Flanking, Bless, Haste, etc. So lots of stuff 'looks tougher than usual' for us. So we flank it and cast haste and it dies fast anyways.

 

[Empirate]

a... Rhinoceros encounter... is a realistic possibility.

That just made my day. Love it! It would go straight to my sig, if I had one!



Also, to adress some of the points made so far:

Law Devotion is such a fantastic feat that allowing its use in discontinued rounds would be a bad, bad idea IMO. Especially at low levels, the bonuses granted by LD are so big that the only thing keeping it balanced is the 1/day part. And even then, it's for a whole battle!

Cheap bonuses can mostly be got out of tactics: high ground (such as being mounted, but actual high ground is quite common, too), charging, flanking, aid another from your familiar (if you have one), those are all common ways to rack up a bit of a to-hit bonus. A +2 bonus isn't trivial at low levels.

Other than that, we're talking actual buffs, which cost resources. At the very low levels, I wouldn't go there, unless there's a Bard around.

I also wouldn't spend feats, unless you plan on using them for a very long time: Weapon Focus should never be taken if Knowledge Devotion is available. With the latter, just one skillpoint spent in all of the six relevant Knowledge skills (nature, religion, arcana, planes, dungeoneering, local) ensures a +1 bonus, not only to hit, but also to damage. On a good roll, that bonus increases to +2. Good effect for a feat and just 6 skillpoints.

A Duskblade should have Arcane Strike as soon as it can be taken, which grants another nice to-hit bonus.

Getting a flank and Aid Another from your familiar (later on, improved familiar) can be a cheap +4 - but it puts the familiar in the line of fire. Still, it has half your HP, so it can take a hit for the team once in a while. I highly recommend Obtain Familiar for a Duskblade anyway.


Also, deciding when to Power Attack comes into play quite a bit: At first and second level, you simply won't need it much, and will rather squeeze out every last bit of to-hit, instead of some extra damage, which will likely be overkill anyway. From 3rd level on, PAing for -1 or -2 can be worth it, but you won't be setting up massive one-shotting kill comboes yet, anyway, so that Rhinoceros won't care much whether you PA for full or not. It will care more about that Ghoul Touch you channel!

 

[Omegaxicor]

In short, the best way to gain bonuses to Hit are to Flank, Charge or to do what I have already specified that we CAN'T do, use spells to weaken the enemy and boost ourselves.

No-one is planning on going a cleric/paladin so Bless and Aid are out, our Wizard goes for pure damage spells rather than Grease and Hold Person

I guess that our DM is doing something wrong (I doubt he is trying to kill us) because to defeat the average monster (which is 90% of them, 5% below and 5% above) I need to roll 10 on my d20 but I roll low regularly

Knowledge Devotion is a lot for a Fighter/Knight or anything with 2+Int Skill Points

Thanks for the advice, basically I need to get my team-mates to work together at low levels