Power Attack vs Combat Expertise balance

[Deset Gled]

IMO, PA is fine when you are actually taking a trade off between damage a chance to hit. The real problem is in the extreme ends.

In D+D, at high levels, many swings a warrior makes are basically a hit on everything except a natural 1. PA allows them to take the extra bonuses and turn it into pure damage with almost no risk. Likewise, some times they may only hit on a natural 20. In these cases, there's no reason not to use full power attack.

PA also allows you to convert high-bonus spells into damage, like True Strike or Wraithstrike. This can also be problematic.

 

[SlagMortar]

In D+D, at high levels, many swings a warrior makes are basically a hit on everything except a natural 1. PA allows them to take the extra bonuses and turn it into pure damage with almost no risk.

This, to me, is why unrestricted power attack is an integral part of the D&D combat system, and should probably just be a mechanic useable by everyone instead of a feat. Power attack keeps AC relevant at all levels. 25 AC vs 30 AC may not seem like much difference when the opponents all have +35 to hit, but with power attack it sure is.

 

[Herzog]

Although by the RAW, it's allowed, I would probably interfere when a character that
has to roll a natural 20 with his full Bab decides to trade in his Bab for power attack.

I think I'll take that to the House rule section....

Herzog

 

[RigaMortus2]

The way I "read" CE as a player:

"I don't want to get hit this round, so I am going to boost my AC up as much as possible with CE. I don't really care about hitting the opponent, I'll leave that up to the other party members. I still get an attack (al beit at a hefty penalty), so even if I do hit, I'll just consider that a bonus"

 

[Nail]

Someone on ENworld had an interesting houserule that in the same way that 2H weapons get 2 for 1 on power attack, shield users get 2 for 1 on Combat Expertise - an interesting way of bolstering shield use.

Ooooo....that's a good idea.....

 

[Legildur]

Power attack keeps AC relevant at all levels. 25 AC vs 30 AC may not seem like much difference when the opponents all have +35 to hit, but with power attack it sure is.

This is particularly true when you are considering multiple/iterative attacks where using Power Attack can significantly reduce the likelihood of successful secondary attacks.

Someone on ENworld had an interesting houserule that in the same way that 2H weapons get 2 for 1 on power attack, shield users get 2 for 1 on Combat Expertise - an interesting way of bolstering shield use.

I agree with Nail. This is a good idea and would restore 'sword and board' to it's rightful place (IMO) on the heap - but it would also make Sunder a more attractive proposition for an opponent faced with someone using this tactic.

 

[Ranger REG]

Can anyone explain to me why Combat Expertise is limited to +5, while Power Attack has no such upper limit?

Both trade in BaB for something else.
Power Attack for extra damage, Combat Expertise for extra AC.
Power Attack is even more powerfull with two handed weapons, Combat Expertise has no such extra option.

So, why? What is so gamebreaking about Combat Expertise that it requires a cap at +5?

Power Attack is dependent on the user to make a successful hit in order to apply the feat's bonus to damage. If you don't hit, then you don't deal damage, and therefore don't apply PA's benefit.

Combat Expertise simply means you go on the defensive for one round (until your next turn). Whether you hit or not, your AC is still benefiting from CE.

Don't worry. There is always the Improved Combat Expertise feat which eliminates the cap.

 

[Presto2112]

Ooooo....that's a good idea.....

It'd definitely make S&B a lot more attractive than it appears to be now.

 

[axp_dave]

The way I "read" CE as a player:

"I don't want to get hit this round, so I am going to boost my AC up as much as possible with CE. I don't really care about hitting the opponent, I'll leave that up to the other party members. I still get an attack (al beit at a hefty penalty), so even if I do hit, I'll just consider that a bonus"

As well as sucking up attacks of the monster to allow other PC's to not be attacked. An intelligent monster would realize the strategy and try to bypass a fighter not actively attacking it, but a less intelligent monster might not.

David