Powergamers! Help Min/Max my Sorcerer!!

[Iku Rex]

But alter form specificies that you take on the physical qualities of the new form. A dwarf ancestor is bodiless.

No it's not. Read the actual creature entry. The part about the "spirits of dwarven heroes" is just fluffy flavor text.

Many DnD creatures, like some constructs and some undead are animated by extraplanar entities or souls/"spirits". That does make them bodiless or (in itself) invalid targets for shapechanging spells.

And the dwarf ancestor isn't even a construct - it's an outsider, with the physiology of a living creature (need to breathe, vital organs, etc.) . In fact, as I understand the basic DnD cosmology, it is common for outsiders to be the souls of dead mortals taken new form.

 

[Thanee]

And the dwarf ancestor isn't even a construct - it's an outsider, with the physiology of a living creature (need to breathe, vital organs, etc.) .

They are the spirits of heroes long dead, returned to the Material Plane in times of need. They have no need of food, drink, sleep, or air.

They are spirits, that inhabit statues and animate them.

I seriously doubt, that this works.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Iku Rex]

They are spirits, that inhabit statues and animate them.

I seriously doubt, that this works.

Ah, you're right about the breathing. They still have a physiology though, or they'd be immune to critical hits, stunning and similar.

And you seem to have overlooked the rest of my argument.

Would you allow someone to change shape into a demon? After all, demons are basically the bodiless souls of dead mortals given physical shape? Golems? Golems are animated by bodiless spirits from the elemental planes. What about creatures that are dead bodies animated by a spirit/soul?

The dwarf ancestor creature is not bodiless. It has a standard creature entry. It is not incorporeal. It is clearly labeled as an outsider. Alter self lets the character change into an outsider. The fluffy flavor text is not an issue.

 

[pawsplay]

The dwarf ancestor creature is not bodiless. It has a standard creature entry. It is not incorporeal. It is clearly labeled as an outsider. Alter self lets the character change into an outsider. The fluffy flavor text is not an issue.

What is clearly labeled is that the "take up residence" in a statue, rather than the statue being their actual form. What you label as "fluff text" is, in this case, a description of a creature, which is very pertinent to the "fluff text" in alter self.

You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth).

Presumably that does not include the characteristics of a possessed statue, and you have no ability to possess statues. I think the problem is that Dwarf Ancestor is a badly written entry.

Anyway, this is wandering afield. If we want to continue discussing this particular tactic, we should start a new thread.

 

[Thanee]

And you seem to have overlooked the rest of my argument.

Well, I do see where you are coming from.

I don't think that it works, though, or should work. While the entry does follow the standard, it's quite clearly said, that the creature is just a spirit inhabiting a body (since the spirit does not appear by itself, it's stats are irrelevant and only the merged stats are given). And I don't think this makes it a valid target for Alter Self.

For demons and such, it's really just fluff, their bodies definitely are their bodies, but the dwarven ancestor spirits can pick any (suitable) body, they are not limited to one. The statue is not their body.

It's certainly a border case and could be argued either way. That's merely my opinion on the topic.

Bye
Thanee

 

[szilard]

Take a look at the Dracolexi prestige class in Races of the Dragon. People have discounted it because it doesn't provide full caster progression, however, it does give you a significant number of extra spells known and some bonus magic abilities in the form of draconic words that more than make up for the loss. Coupled with an increase in HD, skills, and bonus feats, it's a very strong class.

Also, definitely take the metamagic specialist option from PHBII.

-Stuart

 

[rgard]

So in our Age of Worms game the entire party was wiped out by the Faceless One and his minions. TPK. Unfortunately, we made very RPG centric characters that weren't really optimized for efficient tactics and combat.

So in turn, our group is making new characters. But this time we are going to make tactically efficient min/maxed badasses. Our new party is basically going to be the Navy SEALs of Greyhawk. Our DM has basically said bring it on and the new party will pick up where the old party left off.

I'm trying to choose the right combination of feats and spells to just kick the most tail. So help me out. Create for me the most hideously overpowered and devastatingly effective Sorcerer build you can!

Starting level is 5. Attributes are a 1 for 1, 80 point buy. We can have 5000gp of gear to start and ALL feats, spells, and prestige classes from any WotC 3.5 book (or Dragon magazine) are allowed. Though no Eberron feats or classes that use Action Points. And no setting specific classes or feats. For example, no Spellfire because it only exists in the Realms.

And if you use Dragon provide the issue number, month and year. Although I prefer builds that use WotC books over Dragon simply because I may not have the issue needed.

If you can, map out the feats and spells you would take at higher levels too. All the way to 20th if you can. There it is. Show me your best.

You may want to check out the Divine Sorcery feat from Dragon 343 (May 2006). You have to be within one step of your deity's alignment and you add one of your deity's domain spell lists to your list of spells known (doesn't add to spells cast per day.) Also you get domain power like a cleric does.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Thanee]

You may want to check out the Divine Sorcery feat from Dragon 343 (May 2006). You have to be within one step of your deity's alignment and you add one of your deity's domain spell lists to your list of spells known (doesn't add to spells cast per day.) Also you get domain power like a cleric does.

This feat sounds rather crazy. Is there no downside to it?

Even the Bloodline feats from DRAGON, while certainly quite good, do have some downside, and the spell lists are probably chosen rather carefully to not be super-powerful.

When I think of some domains out there, though... and then you also get the domain ability on top (which alone is usually worth a feat by itself)?

Bye
Thanee

 

[scarymike]

I'm surprised nobody mentiond playing a Kobold (races of teh dragon) with the Draconic Rite of passage rituals. (need the web enhancment for the greater version).

With Greater draconic rite of passage, you get +1 to your effective sorc level. Not just caster level, you actual cast as one level higher, get spells as one level higher and spells per day as one level higher. It requires a bit of investment (4 HP loss total, 2 feats [dragonwrought and one from the web enhancment], and 1100 gold). but worth every bit.

I know you can't go campain specific, but for those that can, the White Dragonspawn template is hard to pass up (dragonlance campain setting). +7NA, +1 caster level, immunity to cold and more for +1 LA. gotta be Chaotic Evil though.

 

[rgard]

This feat sounds rather crazy. Is there no downside to it?

Even the Bloodline feats from DRAGON, while certainly quite good, do have some downside, and the spell lists are probably chosen rather carefully to not be super-powerful.

When I think of some domains out there, though... and then you also get the domain ability on top (which alone is usually worth a feat by itself)?

Bye
Thanee

Hi Thanee,

Just came back to this thread to post a correction. Of the domain spells you know, you can only chose to have access to one of them a day.

Also, I think I posted before that this doesn't add to the number of spells per day that you can cast.

Thanks,
Rich