Powergaming Munchkins. Evil Incarnate

[Zelda Themelin]

And then there are the "deep-immersion role-players" who spend a good hour or 2, just conversing with the cannon-fodder NPC street urchin who has nothing to do with the adventure, because it's "in-character".

We know this, because the DM is frantically trying to think up a name for the street-urchin and stuttering "uh, uh, uh...."

These are the same people that spend over an hour in RL, bartering for a piece of bread at the local tavern.

And the rest of the party waits while every time the player opens their mouth as gallons and gallons of prose and poetry flow from their mouth taking up in order to answer the simple question:

"Left or right?"

Uh. Iäve met these people a lot, I've played with them a lot. They are worse than any munchkin kid or roll-playing power gamer I've met, and you know why? Because they don't ever change. Even the worst cheater saw finally the light, when he got with dm who rolled up-front.

And I have known these kind of role-pleayers that know the system, and min-max their social skills too, making it more likely creatures (npc:s included) let them talk.

They also had tendercy to take private time with dm, hours of gametime (there were two such players in my old group). It was after all, much more fun to sosialize with cool npc:s than boring fellow players. Who were getting bored in the other room meanwhile.

They try to talk with evil enemies no-one in their right mind would talk, especially when they just happen to play paladin. And at times come up with some absurb reasons why they shoudn't be killed after all.

And of course, their role-playing everything takes a lot of game time, disturbs actual game plot, whatever something complex or just simple hack-fest.

I just wonder, why there is so much talk about munchins and even power-gamers. Maybe most of you don't find this a problem then or you haven't experieced it. Not that this is opposite or anything.

 

[demiurge1138]

Well, about the Munchkin d20, it's really more of a gentle satire rather than an attack on D&D, and most D&D players I know love Munchkin. And it is playable, albeit in a destructive, hack-n-slash way (but that's what it's supposed to be). The Munchkin game started as a card game parodying D&D, but it was so popular that Steve Jackson games made d20 books based on it.

Demiurge out.

 

[FireLance]

Fact is: people can be inconsiderate louts whether they are role-players or roll-players. Gaming mode is not an issue.

Anyway, whether you call it powergaming, roll-playing, munchkinism or whatever, I do it and I'm not ashamed to admit it. If you have problems with that, I suggest you take it up with my Cleric 4/Human Paragon 3/Prestige Paladin 3/Fist of Raziel 10 .

Mind you, I don't cheat, I don't ruleslawyer and I don't pester my DM. Even a roll-player needs to have some standards.

 

[Ravilah]

Oh, I have a roommate that I call the king of the powergamers. We frequently have one to one sessions (He's the PC, I'm the DM and seven other NPCs at once. Fun). But I must admit that he does not truly fit the bill, because despite all his number crunching, checking to see if magic effects stack, looking up exalted feats, pouring over splat books and Dugeon magazines--he always creates a well-rounded character with a strong background and logical reasons for all his powers (I might also add that he's a darn fine roleplayer).
However, this did/does not stop him from creating a Planer Champion of such magnitude and versatility that I had to throw an "evil dopplganger" party (not actually dopplegangers, but an evil party of equal strength) followed by a Yuan-ti Anathema to kill him. Yes! I purposely tried to kill him! Why? Because the colossal jerk managed to slay every cool villian I could come up with--without breaking a sweat!!! I mean its not like there wasn't a cleric in the party that couldn't raise him a minute later. He had gained an extra level anyway, by drawing from a deck of many things (knight, star, and sun!!). Arggh! And now he's teaching my girlfriend how to max-out HER characters!! That crafty, wheedling, lucky little.......

Whoa. Need to take a breath. Hmm. Do I go on the thred for evil DMs now?

 

[jollyninja]

it's even worse when you get someone who combines the two genres of player. someone who can't play anything out of the phb because he "plays dnd to do something different" and then spends a half hour trying to barter a merchant down 5 gold for a masterwork sword and will not pay market price, or stop trying to find a new shop that will take less. then chats with the barmaid for twenty minutes and finally lets another player do anything until he decides he needs a new shield. and claims that his bizzare choice of feats that happen to turn every attack into a trip attack that stops anyone from closing to within 5 feet of him and do 400+ pts of damage on a critical are just making an effective character. of course his characters don't ever have a stat below 16 and he rolls them all honestly at home, lifts his dice to get a closer look before telling you the number, sometimes almost before it stops rolling.

with that said i did once play a rogue/monk/psion/shadowdancer/duelist who had a naked ac of around 32 at lev 12, a speed around 70 and could flurry with a shortsword (feat out of the monk themed dragon from 2001 called unorthodox flurry).

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Munchkin game started as a card game parodying D&D, but it was so popular that Steve Jackson games made d20 books based on it.

Oooh... I've only played two rounds of the card game, but I won both

Munchkin is all about the Rules Lawyers

-Hyp.

 

[Halivar]

Hi, my name is Halivar, and I'm a munchkin.

(ALL: Hi Halivar)

No. I'm not a munchkin. I represent the freaking Lollipop Guild. I try to be a good roleplayer, I really do. And I am. When I'm not cleaving every bad guy on the battle grid like Captain Insano. As a Math/CS grad, it just comes as second nature. I do damage-per-hit ratios in my head automatically, and I can't stop.

(NOTE: I am not a cheater or a rule-bender, and never have been.)

And every character I play is a tank. My paladin, my fighter, my cleric, even my freaking mystic theurge. I took the MT because I wanted to deliberately place myself in a situation where I couldn't be the group's gladiatorial champion. I did it for the DM just as much for myself. Unfortunately, I was able to percieve quickly the benefits of arcane + divine buffs. I can still remember the look of absolute despair that came over my DM's face when my scrawny wizard leaped into battle against five foes and slaughtered them without taking a hit. Heart-wrenching, I tell you (well, no, not really).

My DM recently confessed to me that he often adds several hit-dice to monsters in the middle of the fight, just to keep the game balanced. There was also that one time where I think he got fed up and killed me in frustration (he denies it to this day, but my party mates concur). I have never seen the man so happy as when he did that final 10 hit-points of crushing damage to my fighter.

Often I just make a character concept, make up a cool as crap character sheet (this often takes as long as two weeks), and... then... tweak the concept to fit my awesome stat spread.

Lately my friends have been having me run through their character sheets (in some cases, they want me to build a character for them) to min-max them. Our groups have been a lot stronger lately.

Am I a bad person?

Now, I've got to go work some more on my new paladin. Got some more feats to pick.

 

[Khaalis]

Why???

What bothers me the most about posts like this is that people insist on taking a Black & White view of gaming. Like life - nothing is Black & White.

All gamers that play a system like D&D, or any other that uses a mechanics rule structure, are "munchkin" to some degree. Everytime you pick a class, level up, place a skill point, choose a feat you are making a decision to better your character - which is the root definition of "munchkining". Unless you are one who feels that making a character that is a useless waste to your party is the only way to role-play or you want to play the 5 year 1st level campaign - you are still forwarding your character and making it better. And if your character IS useless - why the h3ll are they an adventurer to begin with?

If someone makes a character that is the paragon of their role in the party, the best at what they do, why does that make them a bad gamer? It also irritates me that it is automatically assumed that if you are the type to maximize your character's mechanics potential, that you cant be a decent role-player. They are NOT Mutually Exclusive!

Cheaters on the other hand are a whole different ballpark from "power-gamers". Cheaters in gaming are like cheaters in any other aspect of life, but being the best at what you do isnt cheating, its expertise.

JMHRO

 

[Henry]

The term "Munchkin" is severely overrated. I've heard adult gamers before at conventions speak about "munchkins" the way 8-year old boys speak about "cooties."

Glad I don't have any in my games, then. We've got some combat monsters, but they don't spend but a couple of hours outside the game to rewrite their character sheets - if that much. They've rarely if ever pestered me about rules, and they enjoy the company and the jokes more than anything. We DM's in the group pester each other about rules FAR more than the players do.

 

[The_Gneech]

I am my group's resident powergamer; however, I am also reasonably proud of my tendency to build intriguing characters with rich backgrounds and subtle nuances.

Frankly, I kinda wish the rest of the players in my group would get a little more into the rules so that I wouldn't walk all over the opposition (and the other players) all the time. In the Star Wars game where I'm a player, my 7th level Jedi Guardian is not only a combat monster, but also the only one in the group who's much effective in combat at all. So when the dice start rolling, I end up tearing through the opposition like paper while the rest of the group stands around feeling rather frustrated.

Not much fun for me or them. But who's in the wrong here?

I've pointed out my character's weaknesses again and again ... he'd be useless in ship combat; he's not exactly useful if forced to fight at range; his technical knowledge is very basic. I keep waiting for something other than a close-quarters melee to come up so somebody else can be the star for a few minutes!

-The Gneech