PrC’s, one at a time or for dipping?

[AllisterH]

Duskblade. I don't believe that you need to be able to cast 9th level spells and wear full plate armor and have a really decent base attack. You should be equitable to a straight wizard/fighter, not superior. Notice that I didn't say equal, equitability is that in most situations either will perform comparably.

I would also give you the Jade Phoenix Mage.

What I like about both JPM and the Duskblade is the class itself is flavourable and interesting when compared to say the Eldritch Knight of the Abjurant Champion.

Take the JPM for example. The class is designed so that your melee capability DIRECTLY helps your spellcasting while your melee strikes DIRECTLY helps your spellcasting.

Now here's a gish class that actually ACTS like a gish and now two characters in one body (a.k.a. the classic gish of Ftr 1/Wiz 4/EK 10/AC 5 basically casts spells like a 20th level wizard and the it that doesn't work, wades in with the sword. Personally, I always wondered, "Why not just be a wizard 20 and just hire a cohort? Wouldn't it be more effective?)

 

[hong]

Yes. Basically the opinion to the effect of PrCs being there to add "ability packages" to fulfil concepts without requiring some silly organization that you are a part of,

If you can't fulfil your concept by just multiclassing base classes (modulo problem children like ftr/wiz builds), you're not trying hard enough.

and then the rant against the "anti-dipping" crowd who want to use organizations as a way to prevent folks from taking one or two levels of classes.

Think of it as character building.

The old "classes are abilities, not careers" argument.

In D&D, prestige classes are, as often as not, careers. The vast amounts of verbiage in the books dealing with organisations, allegiances, and whatnot is prima facie evidence of this. I guess you could just ignore all that verbiage, but then I can just ignore how the Prereqs don't technically specify non-crunch factors, instead leaving that to DM's discretion. And whereas you have to ignore 6 paragraphs per class, I have to ignore one line.

If all you want are ability packages, use base classes.

 

[Dracandross]

The new fighter feats that have come out in recent books, like PHBII, make staying a fighter more attractive than it used to be. I don't think you can say that no sane player would play a pure fighter anymore.

As for why is it different than base classes, it's because PRCs represent organizations that you join and work for, and a role playing element that is distinct from the general classes.

Thats right for the feats, we dont have PHBII for instance. But even with it 1/2 feat for barbarian or ranger specially at first level is cheap. At least if you start at 3+ so that feat wont hurt you on the begining. But yes its not insane anymore at least for powerplaying.

Id not really call all PrCs as organizations either some fit that well like guild mage and some don't so well. As much as mage can be organized or solitary...

-Dracandross

 

[Dracandross]

Now, please don't see that as a snippy response to what you posted. I didn't put that up there to be mean or rude. I simply wanted to state how I could use about 90% of the same material (dread pirates, Pharoah's barge, skill checks, game mechanic requirements, roleplaying flavor) and come out with a scenario that allows the game to go in a direction the players want and is acceptable to me as the DM.

I should also say that drastic changes in the campaign (such as this) cannot be handled well at the beginning or even the middle of a playing session. To be fair to the DM, this conversation should take place at the end of the session where the players stole the Pharoah's barge. That gives the DM time to adjust the campaign's direction without having to come up with a totally new direction on the fly.

Ill agree. Not that DM is there just for players but still if all PCs want certain type of campaing why try to enforce them into something else. But also players should be aware that if you play for example Worlds Largest Dungeon there is no way you can fit sailing pirates in it.

-Dracandross

 

[glass]

Nope - I don't allow cherry-picking. There's no room for it in my game, and there never will be. If a player takes a PrC, it better be for a good reason

How about, 'because it is fun'? That's reason enough at my table.


glass.

 

[glass]

Mechanics+Roleplay = win.

Why settle for only one, or the other?

Well said. If we were at CM I'd posrep you for that.


glass.

 

[glass]

If you can't fulfil your concept by just multiclassing base classes (modulo problem children like ftr/wiz builds), you're not trying hard enough.

I'm not sure ('modulo problem children'? ), but you seem to be saying 'you can fullfil your concept by multiclassing base classes, except in when you can't'.


glass.

 

[hong]

I'm not sure ('modulo problem children'? ), but you seem to be saying 'you can fullfil your concept by multiclassing base classes, except in when you can't'.

Indeed.

 

[FreeXenon]

I have not read every post.

I have only had one character that has had more than one prestige class. I had a very specific type of character and abilities I was trying to play and I could not get everything that I wanted in one prestige or base class in 3.0. The amount of work that I had to go through to get everything to fill the role and play the character I wanted was crazy. He was a half-orc Barb 1/Rang 3/Rog 2/ Thief Acr ~2/ NotCM 2+. I wanted fast, light, and stealthy tank that could go anywhere.

In some cases the class levels (prestige or base) you choose can be seen as a natural progression of a character's skill set and special training is not needed, albeit this gives the characters a whole lot of freedom to dip, which is the freedom that we have in our campaigns. Not many people take prestige classes in our group, however.

Base classes and Prestige classes present and very specific archetype and ability progression that not every character wants or would naturally follow.

Currently I am playing a Changeling Rog 3/ Cler2/ Shadowbane Stalker and loving it.

 

[moritheil]

Usually if someone has 1-2 PrCs, they are gaining the abilities. If they have 4-5 PrCs, it's no longer about abilities; they just want to get their saves really high.

I take a really dim view of someone banning PrC dipping without having done it a few dozen times themselves to understand the tradeoffs. Sure, it's easy to just give a knee-jerk response like, "But he has evasion and mettle, and still casts 9th level spells! That has to be broken!" Usually someone is giving up all their feats (and not a little bit of BAB) to multiclass that far. If it's worth it to them, why not let them do it?