PrC recommendations for archer-style bards?

[diaglo]

Reminds me of Iolo, the archer bard in the Ultima computer games.

i'm sure hong is not too far behind now....

does he have him statted in his Rule Britiania thread in the Rogues Gallery?

 

[Nifft]

You might consider my variant Arcane Archer:

http://fishnet.cx/~josh/DnD/DHE/prc.shtml#arcanearcher

... with the idea that, at every level where he gets +1 Spellcaster level, he also gets +1 Bard Song/day.

-- N

 

[SteelDraco]

I wrote this up a while ago for an elvish bard in my campaign. It could probably use a bit of polish, but it is a dedicated bard archer class. You'd have to get rid of the elf flavor, though - maybe replace the flavor text with something related to hunting birds.

 

[Kalendraf]

+1 belt and +1 cloak?

Stat-boosting items are always even-numbered (+2 gauntlets of ogre power, +4 and +6 belts of giant strength, and +2/+4/+6 cloaks of charisma)

FYI, I'm the group's DM, and the bard in question here is an NPC. I posed the question because, I'm curious on what prestige options are available for a character like this.

Although the example items in the DMG are listed in even increments, the item creation tables indicate no such restriction. Pricing simply follows the same formula (1000 gp x bonus squared) or whatever cost formula is in effect for the campaign. Turns out this is a lower-than-avg magic world, and the price of stat-boost items is higher than normal (supply/demand). I've never observed a problem with allowing odd-stat items in my group. If I saw everyone go for odd stats and then wear six odd-number boost items I'd call that a problem. Right now, there's maybe 4 or 5 odd-numbered stat items across 6 PCs and the NPC (who's got 2 of them).

If someone can cite an exact rule that says +1 stat items are not legal, then I'll consider changing my position. Otherwise, I simply view the magic items listed in the DMG as examples and not much more.

 

[Kalendraf]

Please drop me an e-mail -- roninartspresident@yahoo.com -- I want to send you the harmonic archer that you inspired.

I sent you a note.

I considered making up my own PrC for this, but wanted to evaluate what other options are available first. So far my track-record on home-brew PrC's is not too great. The players usually think they are too weak or too narrow for their tastes.

I've oscillated back'n'forth on the inclusion of PrCs. In my 1st campaign, it was anything goes and the PrC's got out of hand. This time around, I limited it to a couple dozen, but have been adding more in (mostly from the Complete series) as the campaign progresses. I created about 8 PrC's of my own for this campaign, but only 1 person took one. So I wasn't really all that interested in making yet another PrC, though in this case it would be taken by an NPC, so it would at least get used.

Instead of PrC's, I'm still more of a feat-supporter, believing that what PrC's offer could be better handled by generic classes which are then tailored thru their choices of feats. So the other option instead of a PrC for the archer-bard would be some feats to allow the types of abilities I'm looking for. For example:

SINGING SHOT [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Bardic Music, Perform 10 ranks, Rapid Shot
Benefit: As a free action, you can spend one of your songs per day to imbue a projectile with sonic damage. The arrow, bolt or sling bullet adds 1d6 bonus sonic damage if it strikes its target. The projectile must be fired within 1 round, or bonus is lost.

I have no idea if that is balanced or not, but that's the kind of thing I'd like to see.

 

[Kalendraf]

With your statistics, I wouldn´t go a route that doesn´t improve spellcasting and/or bardic music. Your Dex isn´t that great for a pure archer, and most classes "ignore" your charisma based abilities and spells.

That's a fair assessment. The character could continue on as a bard, though the prior feat selection thus far clearly steers them in the direction of ranged combat. When given advanced warning of combat, the character usually buffs themself up with Cat's Grace, putting their dex up to 18. Between that and the +2 attack and damage bonus from 8th level bard song, and possibly another +1 with Point Blank Shot it is not too shabby.

BAB +6, +4 dex (w/ cat's grace), +2 song, +1 mw shortbow (mighty +1) = +13 attack bonus (+11/+11/+6 rapid shot) seems decent enough for an 8th level character. Damage is the low point right now as the character is just using a short bow and only has 12 strength. Damage is just a d6 + 1 (str) + 2 (song) and possibly another +1 with PBS. That's why taking fighter levels may be in order to get long bow and eventually Weapon Specialization. Otherwise, the character is saving to buy some kind of bow with elemental damage in the future.

The bard aspect really allows much more diversity from other archer builds (usually fighter, ranger or rogue) in terms of the spell casting and more party support thru the bard songs.

 

[F5]

That's a fair assessment. The character could continue on as a bard, though the prior feat selection thus far clearly steers them in the direction of ranged combat. When given advanced warning of combat, the character usually buffs themself up with Cat's Grace, putting their dex up to 18. Between that and the +2 attack and damage bonus from 8th level bard song, and possibly another +1 with Point Blank Shot it is not too shabby.

Don't forget to tack Greater Magic Weapon on there, too. That will boost both attack and damage. And it has a long duration, so it can be prepped well ahead of combat.

He's curerntly 8th level, yes? Are you thinking of splitting lcurrent levels between bard and a PrC, or adding more PrC levels onto the existing 8? How high do you want to go? And are you adverse to psionic classes? Maybe take a few levels of Psi Warrior with some of the funky Psionic feats? You'd have to shuffle the stats for a better wisdom, though.

A 14 Dex isn't optimal for the kind of build you want, but since this is an NPC support character, you don't really want optimal. You want to be good enough to be useful without outshining any of the PCs. And a 14 dex, with buffs, is probably good enough.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Oops. Double post.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Here's my thoughts on this:

1. The character has already made a significant commitment to non fighter-type levels and has sacrificed enough BAB that it will be difficult for him to be a full-time archer.

2. The character has already devoted 8 levels to bard gaining +2 inspire courage, 3rd level spells and is nearly able to inspire greatness.

My analysis: The character should stay bard.

Already, the character's primary contributions in combat are going to be bardsong and spellcasting. His archery is a nice backup and a nice complement for those abilities, but he's not a full-time archer. A full-time archer has 1/1 BAB, a better dex, a higher strength, and either weapon specialization or favored enemy by 8th level. A full-time archer probably also has manyshot and improved rapid shot. This character will deal 1d8+2 points of damage to targets within 30 feet. 1d8+4 if he's singing. A full-time archer should be a lot closer to 1d8+6 points of damage--1d8+8 under the influence of bardsong. Assuming Improved Rapid Shot, weapon focus, and a better dex (18 is not uncommon--start at 16 and advance 1st and 3rd level), the full-time archer's secondary attack (+x/+x (improved rapid)/+x -5 secondary) will be at the same attack bonus as this character's primary attacks. The bard can use his bow to contribute in combat but nobody will mistake him for a fighter or even a ranger.

What he has that fighters and rangers don't is his singing and his spells. And those are starting to get very effective. Consequently, I would suggest that the bard stay the course and inspire more courage and inspire greatness and get more and better spells. Both of those will contribute to his archery. They will also form the primary elements of his contribution to the party--even if it's a party of NPCs.

 

[Remathilis]

Mayhaps Complete Adventurer will have something; its mostly for rogues/bards/skill monkeys.

You might want to consider 3-4 levels of eldrich knight also...