D&D 5E Precision Attack + SS + CBE is like +2d6 sword

[Todd Roybark]

Any elf Cleric with Elven Accuracy can get a smidge bellow the SS+CBE+PA DPR, by upcasting Inflict Wounds into a fourth level slot.

SS + CBE+ PA is a great combo, you are basically Roland from the Dark Tower novels, finger-dancing reloads to your hand crossbows.

But let's be honest, the combo is just burst damage.

A true Crossbow Expert is going to breakout the Heavy Crossbow and snipe, from time to time.
The point of a ranged fighter is to do enough damage from afar, to either pull the monster closer, or drive it away.

A hand crossbow is 120' range, the same as an Eldritch Blast. Ya ain't pulling dragons with those pistols.

Any Ranged build is at the mercy of getting a Quiver of Extra Dimensional to carry the 400 hand crossbow bolts you need.
Magic Arrows + Magic Bows = Burst Damage in any D&D Editions.

Composite Bow Double Specialist Rangers going against Giants and Goblinoids in 1e was a slaughter...the ranger did not need the party. Which is great...free XP.

 

[Coroc]

Improving your Wisdom by +2 will only matter one time in twenty, and it's highly unlikely that you'll be the target of domination twenty times over the course of a campaign after the point where you might seriously consider improving your Wisdom (i.e. after you reach 20 in your primary stat).

That example does a good job of highlighting the strong diminishing returns that I'd mentioned. Your primary ability score, and one of a small number of feats, are something that you can use every round of every combat ever, which is why they have such a disproportionate effect. For a bonus to Wisdom checks to be even remotely in the same league, given how few checks you make with it, the bonus would have to be auto-success; but even auto-success on Wisdom checks wouldn't be remotely as strong as +2 to a stat that you use every round of every combat ever. The game simply isn't set up for it.

Still the one botched wisdom save could be the cause for a TPK, the 2 points less damage per attack surely are not. I speak from my personal experience playing a hunter ranger with SS. If it were not for the "ignore half and three quarter cover as well as distance penalties" of the SS I often wished I had taken +2 CON or +2 DEX instead.

Almost any thread hyping SS and GWM to the skies ignores the -5 to hit to some extend also. It sometimes reads as if the people only meet AC11 mobs or have their personal cleric casting bless each combat running behind them

I had some bad dice luck in one session, I botched every single roll to get rid of exhaustion, despite having a 14 in CON. It was enervating w/o end.

 

[Undrave]

Improving your Wisdom by +2 will only matter one time in twenty, and it's highly unlikely that you'll be the target of domination twenty times over the course of a campaign after the point where you might seriously consider improving your Wisdom (i.e. after you reach 20 in your primary stat).

That example does a good job of highlighting the strong diminishing returns that I'd mentioned. Your primary ability score, and one of a small number of feats, are something that you can use every round of every combat ever, which is why they have such a disproportionate effect. For a bonus to Wisdom checks to be even remotely in the same league, given how few checks you make with it, the bonus would have to be auto-success; but even auto-success on Wisdom checks wouldn't be remotely as strong as +2 to a stat that you use every round of every combat ever. The game simply isn't set up for it.

I'd rather get Durable Resilient (WISDOM) to get Proficiency in Wisdom saves than a +2 to WIS if I'm not using WIS otherwise.

 

[Mort]

I'd rather get Durable (WISDOM) to get Proficiency in Wisdom saves than a +2 to WIS if I'm not using WIS otherwise.

Do you mean Resilient (WISDOM)?

And, yes, it's generally the better option for an off stat. And if above 10, if your stat is odd, then its actually a no-brainer (as you get proficiency AND the +1)

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I'd rather get Durable (WISDOM) to get Proficiency in Wisdom saves than a +2 to WIS if I'm not using WIS otherwise.

Which is a good demonstration of the sheer difference in power levels between a game with feats and a game with no feats. Having access to feats will make characters significantly more powerful than if they didn't have access to feats, but inconsistently so, depending on which specific feats exist to support the character concept.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Still the one botched wisdom save could be the cause for a TPK, the 2 points less damage per attack surely are not.

While any single save could be the difference between a TPK or not, the same can be said of any given damage roll, except the latter is more likely. I mean, if your party can survive your failing 14 wisdom saves out of twenty, then it can almost certainly survive your failing 15.

Meanwhile, damage is both incremental and cumulative, and determines the progress of every fight in the game. The most effective way to keep your party alive is to finish off the enemy as quickly as possible.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Improving your Wisdom by +2 will only matter one time in twenty, and it's highly unlikely that you'll be the target of domination twenty times over the course of a campaign after the point where you might seriously consider improving your Wisdom (i.e. after you reach 20 in your primary stat).

That example does a good job of highlighting the strong diminishing returns that I'd mentioned. Your primary ability score, and one of a small number of feats, are something that you can use every round of every combat ever, which is why they have such a disproportionate effect. For a bonus to Wisdom checks to be even remotely in the same league, given how few checks you make with it, the bonus would have to be auto-success; but even auto-success on Wisdom checks wouldn't be remotely as strong as +2 to a stat that you use every round of every combat ever. The game simply isn't set up for it.

Yes, I really like this line of thinking since 3rd edition. No mental defense whatsoever but totally imbalanced offense. That makes a very good target for dominate spells.

+2 wisdom is really not that great though, but besides WIS saves you also get +1 perception which helps at times and comes into play quite often.
Also you should consider that eveb though you make more attack rolls, the cost of 1 more miss in 20 attacks and a bit less damage done often is not as crucial as the one wisom save you don't make in 2 or 3 levels. Also if you are very bad in wis saves, the +1 can shorten the duration of spells that take you out of combat by 20-25%.
If you already had a good save, you can lower the chance of failure by 20-25% likewise.
Still, the gains are a bit diminishing, and probably instead of just adding +2 to any stat, maybe you should just get 4 point buy points to distribute, maybe with a limit to max +2 to a stat. This way you don't have to choce between +2 to a high and +2 to a low stat, but instead increase 2 low stats by 2 which might make it much more worthwhile.
A different idea could be chosing between +2 to a single stat and +1 to three diffent ones.

 

[Coroc]

I'd rather get Durable (WISDOM) to get Proficiency in Wisdom saves than a +2 to WIS if I'm not using WIS otherwise.

yes or like that. The resilience feats are very strong

 

[Undrave]

Do you mean Resilient (WISDOM)?

And, yes, it's generally the better option for an off stat. And if above 10, if your stat is odd, then its actually a no-brainer (as you get proficiency AND the +1)

Oh yeah I meant Resilient.

 

[Zardnaar]

Its why I put in flaming light/finesse weapons over a flaming greatsword if players pick the -5/+10 feats.

With milestone leveling they don't even get more xp if I add some extra critters.