Predictions of the d20/gaming industry part 2

I find it curious that publishers are saying that RPG books are underpriced. Has WW been underpricing it's books all this time?
A Vampire Clan book (104 pages) goes for $14.95
An Exalted 'Clan' book (96 pages) goes for $14.95

The Vampire Clan book could possibly be explained away as having been 'recycled' material. But The Exalted 'Clan' books don't suffer from that excuse...

Is WW underpricing it's books? If so, why? It's the only contender for the market they have, so they don't have any competition. If not, why is WotC (and other D20 publishers) underpricing it's books if they ask more for their 'Clan' books than WW?
A WotC Class book (96 pages) goes for $19.95
A Mongoose Class book (128 pages) goes for $19.95

Anybody have any opinions on that?
 

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Cergorach said:
I find it curious that publishers are saying that RPG books are underpriced. Has WW been underpricing it's books all this time?
A Vampire Clan book (104 pages) goes for $14.95
An Exalted 'Clan' book (96 pages) goes for $14.95

The Vampire Clan book could possibly be explained away as having been 'recycled' material. But The Exalted 'Clan' books don't suffer from that excuse...

Is WW underpricing it's books? If so, why? It's the only contender for the market they have, so they don't have any competition. If not, why is WotC (and other D20 publishers) underpricing it's books if they ask more for their 'Clan' books than WW?
A WotC Class book (96 pages) goes for $19.95
A Mongoose Class book (128 pages) goes for $19.95

Anybody have any opinions on that?

The argument essentially said that the companies in question could actually increase their profits by increasing the prices of their books, and that the price at which people would desert in droves was considerably higher than we might think. Even some loss of units sold would be more than compensated for by the higher retail cost.
 

Cergorach said:
I find it curious that publishers are saying that RPG books are underpriced. Has WW been underpricing it's books all this time?/B]


Possibly. The thing to remember is that the industry as a whole didn't start seriously discussing price until about a year ago. There's a great deal of debate about the concept, and most companies are just beginning to take actions based on it.

Change takes time.

yours,
 

Some countries where P&P gaming is hard to organize due to cultural or socio-economic reasons, such as Japan, would also flock to a LC-style arrangement.
 

Morrus said:
The argument essentially said that the companies in question could actually increase their profits by increasing the prices of their books, and that the price at which people would desert in droves was considerably higher than we might think. Even some loss of units sold would be more than compensated for by the higher retail cost.

I know, i know Morrus, i did read the entire tread (i really need to get a live ;-) But that's not all that was said and argued, what you mention is the theoretic part of upping the prices. A 10%-20% price raise could mean a doubling of profit for the publisher.
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What i don't understand is tht if someone like me understands this theory, why doesn't a 'big' company like WW do this? They produce a multitude of products in a very specific niche in the RPG business. They don't really have any competition, so why not raise the prices just below the max? Are they allready at the 'max'? Or does the WW pricing have a different reason?

I think we have a couple of extremes:
1.) The game company that's in it for the money (can anyone say GW ;-) and raise prices to the Max.
2.) The game company that's in it for creating quality products for a low price.

IMHO a lot of the D20 companies fall under header #2, trying to supply quality material for a low price (take Beyond All Reason for example, 72 pages for $10.95). WotC is just above 'average' in it's pricing, but if i understand Ryan correctly that might change (if he can think of it, so can the sales people at WotC).

A problem with using the GW marketing scheme is that when you misjudge your pricing ceiling and price your products to high (even GW has made this mistake), people are going to walk. That's all and well when your GW and your next batch of players walks in when the next edition comes along (each edition has a two year live expectancy). But in the RPG business, it doesn't work that way, if customers are gone, they stay gone...

For example, if WotC priced their PHB at $35.00 some sales would be lost, but would probably be compensated by the increase in profit from each book. If they would price it at $40.00 i would see a lot more troubles, people would decide that they could do with a copy of a friends, and the loss of sales would probably outweigh the increase in profit (although a 33% increase in price would result in a huge increase of profit for each book).

Raising the prices would result in a streamlining in the D20 market (which is a good thing, to much crap around). With higher prices people would buy less and would demand more from a product (someone used an example that involved three Sea books, if in the past people would buy three, they would now buy only two). Probably resulting in the disappearance of some companies, only the best would keep their customers. The companies that are left would have to try their utmost to keep quality high and improving.

Take for example the classbooks, i wouldn't pay $25.00 for Mongooses Quentestial Fighter (although the book has some interesting ideas, it failed to implement them effectively, i personally found S&F more usefull). On the other hand, i would pay a 20% price increase for the class books FFG is planning (based on the quality of Dragonstar, the only product i could get my hands on). This is of course a personal preference. IMHO 20% price increase would weed out the boys from the men, a 33% price increase would result in people buying products they 'need', anything higher would (i think) result in the end of a company.

A side 'benefit' would be an increase in the supply of pdf products, to many starter D20 companies wouldn't risk publishing in such a competative market.

I kind of got off track, but i stillwant to know why WW would keep the price of their RPG products so low, what kind of marketing strategy are they following?
 

I don't think that RPG books are underpriced. I don't know how many class books have been sold by WotC by now, but one thing I know for sure: There are many people out there not willing to pay $ 20 for these books.

A look at P2P programms like kazaa or morpheus shows that the WotC class books are probably the leading titles in the RPG books exchange traffic at the moment ;). This is an indicator that many people do not think the price is justified. Usually it's much more convenient to have a real copy of a product at hand. But the combination of "moderately interesting" and "relatively high price" is a sales killer in this regard. Btw, don't get me wrong: I've bought those books ;).

Another reason to be very careful with elevating prices is my personal expectation that the d20 market may suffer from some kind of saturation in the course of this year. The initial frenzy over the d20 system will be over, and people will be calculating before they'll buy something. Therefore, I think the market will get tougher, and only companies with high quality, high notoriety and/or reasonable prices will survive.
 

Turjan said:
A look at P2P programms like kazaa or morpheus shows that the WotC class books are probably the leading titles in the RPG books exchange traffic at the moment ;). This is an indicator that many people do not think the price is justified. Usually it's much more convenient to have a real copy of a product at hand. But the combination of "moderately interesting" and "relatively high price" is a sales killer in this regard. Btw, don't get me wrong: I've bought those books ;).

No offense Turjan, but you'll always have people that want everything for free. Price increase or decrease isn't going to change that. The PHB was also doing very well in the scan scene, especially the OCRed one, but that book was priced at $20, and no one can blame it on being to expensive (even at $30 it's a good deal). I do agree that when prices go up more people will resort to scanned version instead of bought ones. But the popularity of D&D books on Kaza can only be blamed on D&D being popular...
 

@Cergorach: Well, you're right with the notion that there are always people who want everything for free. And of course you will get the stripped down version of the PHB on the net as well.

But anyway, I don't think the PHB versions on the P2P market will harm the sales substantially. On the other hand, this will be the case with the class books. They are always available on the net, for immediate download. This shows that they must be subject to a very rapid and efficient exchange - and that's the reason why I made my previous remark. The price has crossed some kind of acceptance border. Otherwise other books would be similarly popular ;).
 


False concusions....

Turjan said:
@Cergorach: Well, you're right with the notion that there are always people who want everything for free. And of course you will get the stripped down version of the PHB on the net as well.

But anyway, I don't think the PHB versions on the P2P market will harm the sales substantially. On the other hand, this will be the case with the class books. They are always available on the net, for immediate download. This shows that they must be subject to a very rapid and efficient exchange - and that's the reason why I made my previous remark. The price has crossed some kind of acceptance border. Otherwise other books would be similarly popular ;).

I think you are jumping to concusions here. There are several reasons people might want scaned copies of books besides them being do expensive. I personally know at least on person that makes all his books into searchable files. Another one likes to keep the orginals at home and use a file version on his laptop.

Just because they are popular could have nothing or everthing to do with the price of the books. Before making that type of judgement some research is in order.
 

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