MerakSpielman
First Post
Could you use Limited Wish to make the dragon fail a single saving throw? I'm still thinking the Arrow of Slaying (dragon) could be made to work...
Prep to kill a dragon
- Thread starter buzzard
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Radiating Gnome
Adventurer
MerakSpielman said:
First: Run. Start running now.
But, if you can't run . . . .
Well, you didn't have Stoneskin on your list of spells, and that seems like a pretty serious oversight. You will need that.
Read the rest of this assuming a cheesy Limited Wish solution won't work (and it shouldn't):
As for the rest -- If you're going to have any chance at all against a dragon played at all intelligently, do everything you can to focus on the abilities of that archer. The bottom line is that the Archer is going to be your best weapon in this fight.
The trick is that the dragon's main advantage is it's speed -- played smart, the dragon will cruise through, snatch on party member, fly off to some moutaintop, and eat the party member. Then she might pass through and snatch another.
A dragon that size will have snatch, and such a high grapple bonus that there is no way for a snatched victim to escape. Once snatched, it's just a matter of time, and the dragon will probably use it's speed to get away from the rest of the party so it can chew on it's victim in peace.
There's no percentage for the dragon to stick around and slug it out toe to toe with your melee specialists. They will never be able to keep up with the dragon, unless you can do something to negate the speed advantage. They may get a swat in when the dragon goes by, but that's about it.
The best thing your half-ogre storm giants will be able to do is give the archer cover, and try to make sure the archer isn't the first one snatched.
The Dragon's SR and massive saves will make the spellcasters practically useless -- they will need to focus on spells that don't require SR checks.
You might be able to use the Limited Wish to try an EarthBind, forceage, or something else that might be able to keep the dragon from using it's speed. Not that you can expect that to work while the dragon can still cast spells, and escape with a quick teleport -- counterspelling will help keep it from escaping that way. If you're lucky enough to slow it down with one of those spells in the first place.
Still, the best way to keep the dragon from using it's speed against you is not a spell at all -- you need to find something important enough to the dragon that it will slug it out toe to toe rather than trying to cull individuals from the party and kill them one at a time. Maybe it's the dragon's horde, but I wouldn't count on it. You're going to have to get to know your dragon.
That archer, though -- the deepwood sniper will be able to hit the dragon from long range, and do damage pretty consistently. After a few rounds of getting sniped at, the Archer can expect to be the dragon's primary target (while the melee types chase it around pointlessly, and the wizard's spells wash off the dragon's thick hide). Once the dragon has isolated and snatched up the sniper, it'll be all over for the party. So the big lugs need to stay near the archer and do what they can to keep that from happening. And I doubt that will work for long.
So, again, after all of that, I say run. Run fast and hard. Change your name. And pray the dragon does not find you.
-rg
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
I'd suggest groveling before the awesome power of the dragon, perhaps offering several PCs (as sacreficial offerings, slaves, or food). You could also offer 3/4 (or more) of the group's wealth.
Flatter the dragon and you have a chance to live. Anger it and you will be eaten.
Flatter the dragon and you have a chance to live. Anger it and you will be eaten.
Hang around in a tavern in Sigil, wearing a dark veil and a greatcoat with every anti-divination spell up that you know. Then hire a party of 20th level adventurers to go risk their necks for you, promising cast rewards if the dragon is slain. Then, once they're all massacred, jaunt in and finish off the dragon, which should by now be relatively softened up.
"I seek a band of mighty adventurers!"
--Jeff
"I seek a band of mighty adventurers!"
--Jeff
Radiating Gnome
Adventurer
The spell I mentioned, Earthbind, is in Draconomicon, which you may not have at your disposal. It's a very nice spell for this sort of thing, though, especially for a 2nd level spell.
On a failed save, the subject floats down to earth as if affected by a Feather Fall spell. But on a successful save, the subject's air speed is reduced by 10' per level, up to a max of 10. Since your Great Wyrm Red would have a 200, I believe, that would cut her speed in half -- still too fast for the characters with fly to keep up, but it would help.
Forcecage is nice, as it has no save and no spell resistance, but it's too small to fit the Colossal Red Dragon (30'x30').
So, like I said. Run.
-rg
On a failed save, the subject floats down to earth as if affected by a Feather Fall spell. But on a successful save, the subject's air speed is reduced by 10' per level, up to a max of 10. Since your Great Wyrm Red would have a 200, I believe, that would cut her speed in half -- still too fast for the characters with fly to keep up, but it would help.
Forcecage is nice, as it has no save and no spell resistance, but it's too small to fit the Colossal Red Dragon (30'x30').
So, like I said. Run.
-rg
buzzard
First Post
Trust me, I know it's suicide. As I said, I just want Mr. Dragon to know we had visited, and maybe have some respect for the stains we leave on the floor. I rather think he won't have too much room to manuever (or should I say hope). We were granted a reprieve this evening as our DM is sick. Therefore keep the ideas comming.
buzzard
buzzard
Some good advice in here already. I agree that this attack will most likely decimate your party if the dragon is well-played (as it should be).
Still, there are steps you can take to increase your chances of victory. First, find out anything you can about the dragon. Where is lives, what its habits are, who its allies are. Scrying is a good option here, although the dragon will notice the sensor and know he is being scryed, giving him a warning. Consider whether or not you want to do this.
The only way to sneak up to a dragon (and even this isn't a guarantee of success) is to go in ethereally. Anything else is pointless, including invisibility, mundane hiding, silence spells, flying, etc. I recommend you scount the area ethereally via a gate to the ethereal plane. Be sure to prepare an escape in case the dragon spots you anyway (it is, after all, a high level arcane/divine caster). Try to see the dragon fighting, find out what spells he uses.
Once you've gathered information, get your party together and consider if you really are up to this. My feeling with the information you have provided is that you are not upto the task.
If the dragon does have allies, try to take them out before assaulting the dragon. If the lair is riddled with traps, use Etherealness/Teleport/Gate to get in or Find the Path.
Now, prep spells. Try to make the fighters mobile enough to keep up with the dragon. Air Walk or Fly help some. Mass Haste for everyone. The other spells mentioned also help.
Dispel anything the dragon has previously cast.
Have the wizard prepare to counterspell. It is unlikely that his blast spells will get through the dragon with any significance, between SR and its godly saves. Counterspelling a heal spell by the dragon makes all the difference.
The wizard can also keep casting his spells thanks to his partial action from Haste. So make sure he buffs everyone. He should also prep some Walls of Force to reduce the dragon's mobility. While large dragons have huge fly speeds, they have low maneuverability. A Wall of Force in the middle of the air reduces the dragon's mobility even though he sees it, since it has bad 'minimum forward speed' and 'between up and down' (check the flight rules in the DMG). At the very least, such spells limit the dragon's actions. If he wants to get rid of a wall, he needs to cast Disintegrate or fly around it, and that's another spell, flyby or full attack you're spared of. Wingover only works once per round.
Dimensional Anchor until it gets past SR.
Anyway, you get the general idea: the spellcasters should work towards limiting the dragon's great mobility. This way your mobile fighters can go in and hack at him.
Summon a solar. Or three. Your 18th level cleric can and should do this. Offer it at least an equal share of the dragon's (considerable) horde. With its high fly speed, bow of slaying and 20 levels of clerical casting, plus a host of special abilities, the solar will give you an edge.
Find a way to neutralize grappling tactics. If it were 3.5, I'd suggest Freedom of Movement for everyone. In 3.0 I'm not sure what to tell you. Wieldskill (escape artist) on everyone? Grease?
The wizard shouldn't have a problem with this, since he can teleport/dimension door out (Verbal component only). The rest of the party--beware.
Boost everyone's will saves. Mordenkainen's Disjunction can put a real dent on a high level character's power. There's also no real counter for this cruel spell.
Prepare an escape route. I'd also prepare a secluded place where you can rest/regroup. Make sure it is somehow not scry-able. You want at least 24 hours before the dragon comes looking for you. I suggest you travel the planes for some time if this happens.
Even if all goes exceedingly well, I expect most of your melee fighters to die. The cleric and solar should keep an eye on their general condition vs the dragon's damage output. Heal/Mass Heal as appropriate.
Good luck. You're going to need it.
Still, there are steps you can take to increase your chances of victory. First, find out anything you can about the dragon. Where is lives, what its habits are, who its allies are. Scrying is a good option here, although the dragon will notice the sensor and know he is being scryed, giving him a warning. Consider whether or not you want to do this.
The only way to sneak up to a dragon (and even this isn't a guarantee of success) is to go in ethereally. Anything else is pointless, including invisibility, mundane hiding, silence spells, flying, etc. I recommend you scount the area ethereally via a gate to the ethereal plane. Be sure to prepare an escape in case the dragon spots you anyway (it is, after all, a high level arcane/divine caster). Try to see the dragon fighting, find out what spells he uses.
Once you've gathered information, get your party together and consider if you really are up to this. My feeling with the information you have provided is that you are not upto the task.
If the dragon does have allies, try to take them out before assaulting the dragon. If the lair is riddled with traps, use Etherealness/Teleport/Gate to get in or Find the Path.
Now, prep spells. Try to make the fighters mobile enough to keep up with the dragon. Air Walk or Fly help some. Mass Haste for everyone. The other spells mentioned also help.
Dispel anything the dragon has previously cast.
Have the wizard prepare to counterspell. It is unlikely that his blast spells will get through the dragon with any significance, between SR and its godly saves. Counterspelling a heal spell by the dragon makes all the difference.
The wizard can also keep casting his spells thanks to his partial action from Haste. So make sure he buffs everyone. He should also prep some Walls of Force to reduce the dragon's mobility. While large dragons have huge fly speeds, they have low maneuverability. A Wall of Force in the middle of the air reduces the dragon's mobility even though he sees it, since it has bad 'minimum forward speed' and 'between up and down' (check the flight rules in the DMG). At the very least, such spells limit the dragon's actions. If he wants to get rid of a wall, he needs to cast Disintegrate or fly around it, and that's another spell, flyby or full attack you're spared of. Wingover only works once per round.
Dimensional Anchor until it gets past SR.
Anyway, you get the general idea: the spellcasters should work towards limiting the dragon's great mobility. This way your mobile fighters can go in and hack at him.
Summon a solar. Or three. Your 18th level cleric can and should do this. Offer it at least an equal share of the dragon's (considerable) horde. With its high fly speed, bow of slaying and 20 levels of clerical casting, plus a host of special abilities, the solar will give you an edge.
Find a way to neutralize grappling tactics. If it were 3.5, I'd suggest Freedom of Movement for everyone. In 3.0 I'm not sure what to tell you. Wieldskill (escape artist) on everyone? Grease?
The wizard shouldn't have a problem with this, since he can teleport/dimension door out (Verbal component only). The rest of the party--beware.Boost everyone's will saves. Mordenkainen's Disjunction can put a real dent on a high level character's power. There's also no real counter for this cruel spell.
Prepare an escape route. I'd also prepare a secluded place where you can rest/regroup. Make sure it is somehow not scry-able. You want at least 24 hours before the dragon comes looking for you. I suggest you travel the planes for some time if this happens.
Even if all goes exceedingly well, I expect most of your melee fighters to die. The cleric and solar should keep an eye on their general condition vs the dragon's damage output. Heal/Mass Heal as appropriate.
Good luck. You're going to need it.
Ankh-Morpork Guard
First Post
I'd suggest that the second the DM starts the session...you all cry until the DM shows mercy. 
Geoff Watson
First Post
Cast the following buff spells on everyone before the fight:
Fortunate Fate (an extra 150hp),
Energy Immunity: Fire (or Protection from Fire),
Freedom of Movement, and
Stoneskin.
This should give you enough of an edge that the dragon
will have to spend time Greater Dispelling your buffs,
which gives you enough time to do some damage.
Geoff.
Fortunate Fate (an extra 150hp),
Energy Immunity: Fire (or Protection from Fire),
Freedom of Movement, and
Stoneskin.
This should give you enough of an edge that the dragon
will have to spend time Greater Dispelling your buffs,
which gives you enough time to do some damage.
Geoff.
Sejs
First Post
*nod* That's part of why druids make for good additions to a dragon hunt - control winds at very high levels means no flying. It doesn't stop teleportation, plane shifting, or other spells the dragon can and would cast, but stopping that is another kettle of fish entirely. If you're fighting in a wooded area, getting that Deepwoods Sniper a way to Tree Stride adds alot to his surviveability, as well. Pop off a few rounds from concealment, then tree stride to another location and fire from there. Repeat as long as viable.
If the killing of this dragon is important to the cleric's god, and said cleric has access to gate the PCs just win. Sepulchurave pointed this out at one point - gate in a solar. Solar with its 20 levels of cleric spellcasting gates in other solars. Repeat as many times as needed. DMs tend not to like that, however. And the PCs tend to get oh.. say no experience (it wasn't a challenge at all) and no treasure (payment in thanks to said angelic host), but hey... if it's the kill that's important...
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