preparing spells

[IceBear]

But, to be honest with you, looking at the PHB Glossary, I do think the rules as written do say what we've been saying. It clearly states that a spell with a casting time of 1 round is handled differently than most Full Round Actions. If you use just the definition of a FRA, then you have the rule that we are using.

Also, I don't think that Sage clarification was in Dragon. I think it was in answer to a question emailed to him last summer when this debate was going on then. That's why I wanted Caliban to comment here - he seems to keep better notes than I do of who said what and when

IceBear

 

[IceBear]

Where would it do that?
The PHB only mentions spells that either take one action to cast, and spells that take a full round to cast.
P. 148, Casting Time: "A spell that takes a full round to cast is a full round action."

Right, but it doesn't say that a spell that takes a full round action takes a full round to cast. As similiar as they sound, they are different things. And a metamagic spell cast by a sorcerer is a full round action - it does not have a casting time of 1 round. See the difference?

IceBear

 

[apsuman]

Here's a start

http://homepage.mac.com/guyf/DnD/Sage/SorcererMetamatic.html

I agree that the rules are not as clear as I would want them to be.

However, we are back at the a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not necessarily a square problem.

All 1 full round casting time spells are full round actions. Your Italized type makes it very very clear that 1 full round casting time spells happen just before the initiative of the caster in the following round.

However, not all full round spells have a casting time of 1 full round. Meaning your italisized text would not apply.

 

[IceBear]

Thanks apsuman....I've got to learn to keep track of my references like this

IceBear

 

[Henrix]

No, Icebear, I still do not see.
Sorry, I can only say reread the Casting Time on p.148.

Thanks for the link to the Sage answer, apsuman!

I still do not agree, but I'll let it rest.
I think the Sage is contradicting the rules here, but that is cool.
I'll play it my way until an official errata or it becomes included in the FAQ.
Having two different sorts of full round spellcasting actions (named identically) is too much for me!

Thanks, all, for a good argument!

 

[IceBear]

See, this is a pet peeve of mine. People are given evidence that something is incorrect and then they *still* decide that it's not offical until errata comes out. Well, in this case, there isn't going to be errata because they feel they've stated it clearly - obviously not.

A spell that takes a full round action to cast is NOT the same as a spell with a casting time of one round. Simply looking at the glossary for a Full Round Action specially states that a spell with a casting time of one round is a special case of a Full Round Action.

The PHB and T&B (that was reprinted in there to help clarify it more, though it failed) both state that a spell with a one action casting time becomes a full round action. It never says that its casting time changes to a full round. I don't find that too confusing at all, I just remember what a fighter taking a full round action in melee is like and carry on from there.

Sorry Hendrix, I don't mean to be taking this out on you, but I just find so many debates on here that could end with a ruling or clarification don't because no one wants to following the ruling Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's fine, I just get frustrated too easily

IceBear

 

[Zhure]

From the FAQ:
"When a sorcerer or bard uses a metamagic feat, it requires
a full round action, or an extra full round action if the spell
already required a full round action. However, what if a
bard or sorcerer used two or more metamagic feats on a
single spell? Does the delay keep stacking and make the
spell go off several rounds later, or is this penalty for any
number of metamagic feats used in a round?
No, the delay is for one or more metamagic feats applied to a
single spell, not for each metamagic feat applied to a spell."

Note the implied difference between a full round action and a full round spell.

"Are sorcerers, bards, and clerics using spontaneous
casting able to use the Quicken Spell metamagic feat?
They can, but there is no point in their doing so. A sorcerer or
bard who uses a metamagic feat on a spell must cast the spell as a full-round action (or the normal casting time plus an extra full-round action if the spell’s casting time normally is longer than 1
action). Clerics using spontaneous casting must follow the same
rule. This rule makes Quicken Spell worthless for these
characters."

Again, the implied difference.

In each case, there's a difference between a full-round spell and a full-round action.

Greg

 

[Caliban]

Icebear, Zhure, and Shard are correct.

A spell with a 1 Full Round casting time is different than using a Full Round Action to cast a spell with a 1 Action casting time.

A 1 Round casting time takes until your next initiative to complete.

Using a FRA to cast a spell with a 1 Action casting time is no different than using a Full Attack Action instead of a Standard Attack action. You finish it on your current initiative and restricted to a 5' step.

The language is very specific in this case, and even the text in the Tome and Blood doesn't contradict this. The Casting Time section is discussing spells that have a full round casting time, not spells with a 1-action casting time that have been metamagicked. The next section is Sorcerers and Metamagic Feats, and it simply states that you use a full round action to cast a spell with a metamagic feat. Unfortunately their example is that of a Full Round Casting time spell that has been metamagicked, and that clouds the issue.

This has been confirmed by the Sage, via e-mail.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I'm just glad I got back now instead of when this debate was going full swing.

 

[IceBear]

I'm just glad I got back now instead of when this debate was going full swing.

Well, if I could've remembered the full details and not just the ruling I would never have doubted myself. Damn old age eating my brain cells

IceBear