preparing spells

[Henrix]

Sorry Hendrix, I don't mean to be taking this out on you, but I just find so many debates on here that could end with a ruling or clarification don't because no one wants to following the ruling Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's fine, I just get frustrated too easily

It's OK, Icebear, I understand your frustration. I would have liked this cleared up too.

But I honestly cannot see anywhere in the rules that there are two differenst sorts of full round spellcasting actions, one that makes the spell go off immediately, and one where the effect is delayed.

Nowhere!

You're all talking about implications that are invisible to me!
All the places you point out state, very clearly to me, that _all_ spells that take a full round to cast require a full round action.
And that full round spellcasting action is clearly defined!

Then there's the Sage, who in one email, has stated otherwise.

Yeah, well, sorry... but I cannot agree. I wish it were otherwise, and if it makes any of you feel better, I promise to refer to what the Sage said in that email in any other discussions I have about this anywhere.

(Hey, that was one post more than I had intentended on this topic!)

 

[IceBear]

The differences is in the spell description.

If it says Casting Time: 1 Round then it's the special case of a Full Round Action that doesn't complete until just before your next turn (source - Glossary Description of a Full Round Action)

If it's a spell that takes just a Full Round Action to cast (and the only time this occurs is when you apply a metamagic feat spontaneously to a spell) then it just takes a Full Round Action. No where do the rules on metamagic say that the casting time changes to 1 round. It just says that it takes a full round action to cast it. A Whirlwind attacks is a full round action. It starts and ends during the fighter's initiative count in the round that he declared the attack. He is not still making WWAs until just before his initiative count (or else monster moving into range would suffer the WWA too). It's the same thing with a FRA to cast a spell. It is NOT a spell that has a full round casting time.

Anyway, it's obviously different to me and it's not to you. So, I guess there's nothing more to say.

IceBear

 

[Caliban]

It's OK, Icebear, I understand your frustration. I would have liked this cleared up too.

But I honestly cannot see anywhere in the rules that there are two differenst sorts of full round spellcasting actions, one that makes the spell go off immediately, and one where the effect is delayed.

Nowhere!

You aren't looking at it correctly.

There is only one Full Round Spellcasting Action, and it is only used when casting spell that have a listed casting time of 1 full round or more. (i.e. summon monster spells.)

There is a different rule for Full Round Actions. This applies to any normal full round action, whether it's a Full Attack Action, Coup De Grace, or applying a metamagic feat to a spell on the fly.

You keep thinking that a sorcerer applying a metamagic feat to spell changes the casting time of the spell to a full round casting time. It does not. Using a metamagic feat does not change the casting time of the spell itself, it just takes extra time to apply the metamagic feat to the spell and then they cast it. Combined, this makes it a full round action (basically it takes a full round to apply the metamagic feat, and then they immediately cast the spell.)

You're all talking about implications that are invisible to me!
All the places you point out state, very clearly to me, that _all_ spells that take a full round to cast require a full round action.
And that full round spellcasting action is clearly defined!

You are confusing a full round action with a full round spellcasting time. They are two different things.

Then there's the Sage, who in one email, has stated otherwise.

Here's the email:

Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 13:59:58 -0700
From: Skip Williams <thesage@wizards.com>
Subject: Re: When does a spontaneous metamagic spells take effect?
To: Guy Fullerton <guyf@apple.com>

Guy Fullerton wrote:

Hullo,

A sorcerer wants to spontaneously cast a metamagic version of a spell with a casting time of 1 action (say a maximized magic missile). Spontaneously casting a metamagic version of a 1 action spell requires a full-round action. Does this mean the spell takes effect:

A) Just before the caster's action next round? This means spontaneously casting a 1-action spell with a metamagic feat turns its casting time into "1 full round" as described in the Magic section of the PH.

B) Immediately? This means the only difference between casting a 1-action spell and spontaneously metamagic-ing a 1-action spell is that the metamagic one cannot have a move-equivalent action before or after. In other words, a spell with a casting time of "1 action" that requires a full-round action is different from a spell with a casting time of "1 full-round".

B (immediately). The character uses a full-round action and can't do anything else except take a 5-foot step.

Thanks!

 

[Sodalis]

wow....

four pages on the discussion of a casting time...

 

[IceBear]

wow....

four pages on the discussion of a casting time...

Yup...bored again at work

IceBear