D&D 4E Presentation vs design... vs philosophy

[Manbearcat]

@prabe

Just to make sure we're on the same page.

You get how I can find something inferable (not surprised at the reaction of some D&D players), perhaps even being sympathetic to it, while simultaneously being of a mind that the nature of the response (and the hell it hath wrought) was enormously objectionable?

 

[prabe]

@prabe

Just to make sure we're on the same page.

You get how I can find something inferable (not surprised at the reaction of some D&D players), perhaps even being sympathetic to it, while simultaneously being of a mind that the nature of the response (and the hell it hath wrought) was enormously objectionable?

I think we're on the same page. I read the PHB when 4E was released, and my reaction was kinda meh, but I was in a period of nerding out on other things, so I more or less missed the Great Session War. At this point, I find slagging on other people for their tastes in TRPGs objectionable, but I'm not really the same person I was twelve years ago, so it's hard for me to say how I would have acted then.

 

[Oofta]

Presuming this is true (I never played 4E, mainly because no one in my groups was interested enough to advocate for doing so): Given the aparently common attitude toward narrative-ish games (PbtA, for instance) among D&D players, is it really any surprise that at least some D&D players loudly rejected 4E as "not D&D"?

Shhhh! You're not supposed to acknowledge that to some people 4E felt like a different game with only superficial resemblance to previous editions.

 

[Undrave]

Presuming this is true (I never played 4E, mainly because no one in my groups was interested enough to advocate for doing so): Given the aparently common attitude toward narrative-ish games (PbtA, for instance) among D&D players, is it really any surprise that at least some D&D players loudly rejected 4E as "not D&D"?

On the whole no, but in context I find it hard to believe 3.X was anymore Narrativist than 4e.

Heck, I feel like it's Simulationist leaning got in the way of a good stories ("Wait, that guy can't have that ability, no way he has the caster level for that!" ) and I find the 4e cosmology far more conductive to story telling than the Great Wheel and its planes of insta-death.

Again : For some reasons, people who call themselves 'Gamers' didn't want to be reminded they were playing a 'Game'.

 

[Charlaquin]

Shhhh! You're not supposed to acknowledge that to some people 4E felt like a different game with only superficial resemblance to previous editions.

If that’s what you take out of 4e fans’ objections to people calling it “not D&D,” you really don’t get it. There’s nothing objectionable about what prabe said there.

 

[prabe]

If that’s what you take out of 4e fans’ objections to people calling it “not D&D,” you really don’t get it. There’s nothing objectionable about what prabe said there.

I'm pleased I was unobjectionable; I was trying to be.

 

[Oofta]

If that’s what you take out of 4e fans’ objections to people calling it “not D&D,” you really don’t get it. There’s nothing objectionable about what prabe said there.

I'm sorry a joke feels so offensive to you, but you're right. I don't get it. I don't understand why anyone would want to buy a pickup truck if they just use it to commute to work and back every day.

But that doesn't mean I think any less of my brother-in-law and his oversized tonka truck. Just means I don't get it. People are entitled to their opinions, even when they disagree with me.

 

[Charlaquin]

I'm sorry a joke feels so offensive to you,

It doesn’t.

but you're right. I don't get it. I don't understand why anyone would want to buy a pickup truck if they just use it to commute to work and back every day.

But that doesn't mean I think any less of my brother-in-law and his oversized tonka truck. Just means I don't get it. People are entitled to their opinions, even when they disagree with me.

You’ve completely misunderstood my comment, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at this point.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Again : For some reasons, people who call themselves 'Gamers' didn't want to be reminded they were playing a 'Game'.

I'm not familiar with many people in the hobby who choose that appellation for themselves, given the ambiguity. Most people that I know of would refer to themselves as 'role-players' if anything.

 

[Oofta]

It doesn’t.


You’ve completely misunderstood my comment, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at this point.

Just to clarify what I said a bit. Many people felt that 4E was a pretty radical departure from previous editions in style and implementation. That's just a simple fact.

Whether or not it was an enjoyable game, "better" or "worse" than any other edition is a completely separate issue and in the eye of the beholder. I think it would have been more successful if it hadn't had a rushed implementation but that's water under the bridge.

But at this point you've never really given much of a reason other than "it's objectionable because it is". I try to be reasonably sensitive of other people but I'd need a better explanation than "because".

But never mind, I'll just go back to ignoring this thread.