Prestige Class for Thief/Cleric

[Darren]

Ok... since I brought it up, I'll just ask instead of trying to read between the innuendo... how is it beyond broken?

low skill points; low hit die; lack of some of the better rogue abilities, and most of those that are granted are (Su) and therefore go away in antimagic; delayed cleric spell acquisition... leaving Surprise for the Dead the only thing that seems a bit iffy.

I was going to offer this in the next campaign, actually hoping someone would take it. So what's wrong? And how could the basic idea be "fixed?" Small words, please, since it seems I'm overlooking the obvious.

 

[Sue Bloodbucket]

Mind the obvious...

Perhaps i am mistaken but isn't a
- full spell progression
- d6 HD
- two strong saves
- full sneak progression
- all rougeskills to choose from
- lot's of funny but powerfull class-features
a bit tooooooo (sry, for that but it seems my backspace just broke down) handy for a 7th lvl PrC?

Right me if i'm wrong but... yes, kind a broken-to-the core if ye get my meaning.

good night ta ye
Sue

post scriptum
Cleric/Rouge means that you ought to have a high wisdom score...
What good would it be to a party with the rouge standing i front
of a heaviely trapped and locked door saying: "No, i will not try that because
it is far too dangerous!"

 

[Cheiromancer]

Skullclan hunter is good. Miniature's Handbook. It lets you sneak attack undead, and gives resistances/immunities against undead attacks.

 

[was]

Assuming you mean rogue/cleric (thief = 2e)

-Yeah, I know they changed the name to rogue. I just don't like using it. Sounds too politically correct for me. Oh no, we can't call them thieves, even if that's do. That might offend someone. Like if WoTC printed errata officially renaming Dwarves as vertically challenged individuals of short stature. Besides, no one commonly mistakes thieves for cosmetics on the boards. (rouge)
-Thanks anyways everyone. I guess I'll just have to dust off the old quill and scribble up a custom one.

 

[Thanee]

Oh no, we can't call them thieves, even if that's do. That might offend someone.

Well, I think the main motivation was, that rogues simply do not have to be thieves anymore (tho, they could be). You have plenty options to play a rogue, which can be anything, the thief is just one conceptual possibility.

Thus naming the class thief would be extremely misleading.

And rogue is the cooler name, too.

Bye
Thanee

 

[shilsen]

-Yeah, I know they changed the name to rogue. I just don't like using it. Sounds too politically correct for me. Oh no, we can't call them thieves, even if that's do.

As Thanee pointed out, that's not what they necessarily do. Rogue is a term which can include thieves, but it can also include a scout, a trapfinder, a con artist with a silver tongue who couldn't pickpocket someone or pick a lock if his life depended on it, and so on. Thief is too reductionist a name for a class. An equivalent would be if the fighter class was called swordsman.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

How exactly is the divine trickster class more powerful than the arcane trickster? It looks like a straight conversion almost, and it seems to be generally accepted that arcane spells are superior to divine anyway. So why no complaints about arcane trickster?

 

[Thanee]

A straight conversion?

Have you read the special abilities?

If those would be removed/toned down, I don't think I had a problem with the class, but stuff like spontaneous casting of domain spells and hide in plain sight is just too much to add to an already good class. A +6 or so bonus on Search and Disable Device against magical traps isn't all bad either. Adding Slippery Mind to that class also seems somewhat wrong to me for some reason. Sneak Attack against undead? OK, so clerics are opposed to the undead normally, but trickster gods are probably not among those who fiercly hunt them down.

Not to mention, that Bluff and Hide is not nearly as much a requirement as Decipher Script and Escape Artist, and you need 2 full levels less to enter the class, because only 2nd level spells are needed as opposed to 3rd level spells for the Arcane Trickster.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darren]

hmm...
Maybe. So you are looking at it more as a cleric buff than as a way to get a sneaky character who happens to cast divine spells. I guess I can see that now... missing the obvious, too many trees in the forest and all...

So, let's require 3rd level divine spells instead of 2nd, then require some ranks in escape artist. Next, nix the special abilities. That leaves... a slightly lower-powered cleric that sneak attacks. How exciting.

How about making Unseen Servant available as a Cleric spell? Then give Ranged Legerdermain as in Arcane Trickster based on this spell at 1st, 5th, and 9th levels, sneak attack at 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th levels. Maybe allow a spontaneous casting or two from the Trickery domain at 3rd and 7th levels? Too derivative? Meh. Disillusionment... plot hooks just not coming together quite right for it now. Oh well.

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

Some good (meaning purposeful and balanced ) PrCs for Cleric/Rogues can be found in FR Faiths and Pantheons

"Techsmith of Gond" excels at mechanical challenges (but lacks as a combat oriented rogue - no extra sneak damage, weak attack progression ) and has full spell progression.

"Strifeleader of Cyric" makes a very good ( if psychopathic ) "stab them" cleric who also excels in certain social situations, while retaining full spell progression and even gaining some sneak damage. Of course, you serve a chaotic evil deity dedicated to chaos, betrayal and lies... basically, you will be as popular as the pox.

"Goldeye of Waukeen" creates an urbane, smooth tongued rogue/cleric hybrid with full spell progression and excellent abilities when it comes to communication, assessing the opposition and being well liked. No sneak damage.

In a way, this very short list gives you an idea how WotC views rogues - basically as anything but selflessly religious, and if they become priests, they will rarely promote more than one aspect of the rogues various strengths.