[Prestige Classes] Hey guys, as a player, would this upset you?

[Paul_Klein]

This is not really a house rule, but more of an "understanding".
NOTE: The examples given are from the Star Wars d20 game, but the concept is for any d20 game.

Prestige Classes:

In this campaign, prestige classes will not be easy to come by. That is not to mean that they are rare, per say, however, in this campaign, they are going to be more than “cool power-ups”.
In order to qualify for a prestige class, you obviously need to meet the prerequisites. However, there will be more to it. Your character, your character’s background, your character’s future, your character’s ambitions, and more importantly, your character’s present situation – all in a roleplay sense – weigh in heavily in determining if you qualify.
It no longer makes sense for a Jedi, in his first 8 levels to have no ranks in pilot, achieve his 9th level of play, dump 6 ranks into pilot, and take Jedi Ace at 10th level. For the vast majority of his life, he didn’t even know how to pilot a ship, and now, he’s considered an Ace?
It is VERY important to actually READ the description of the prestige class, instead of just looking at the numbers. The very first sentence of Jedi Ace, “A Jedi ace feels most at home in the cockpit of a starfighter…” illustrates what is wrong with the above example. It seems to me that the Jedi who all of a sudden did a skill dump into the Pilot skill to get the prestige class does NOT feel most at home in the cockpit of a starfighter, or else he would have been doing it most his life.

Another point about prestige classes to make is this: while there is no set number limit on the number of prestige classes one can take, by using the “new” method of obtaining prestige classes, any more than 2 different classes would be very rare. Example: I cannot fathom, in a roleplay sense, a character having Jedi Ace, Jedi Scholar and Jedi Weapon Master. Look at these three sentences, all quoted from the prestige classes’s text (Ace, Scholar and Weapon Master, in order): , “When the [starfighter] battle is over, the Jedi ace feels closer to the Force than ever before” – “Some Jedi feel they are closest to understanding the Force when they study other subjects [other than the Force]” – “…a few [Jedi] make combat the central focus of their union with the Force. These are the Jedi weapon masters…”. Having even two of these three different classes would seem contradictory. However, some characters, with a properly written background, and having exhibited aspects of these traits in a roleplay sense, could possibly obtain two of them.

No longer will characters take one level in Jedi ace to get Starfighter Operation (starfighter) for free, and then ditch the class for greener pastures. No longer still will a character take just enough levels in a class to obtain all that the player wants out the class. That is quite simply min-maxing. One will leave a class in favor of another when it makes sense to from a roleplaying, character-driven standpoint. I understand it is difficult to not min-max at all… but there are some things that can be done – and still make perfect sense – in order to curb it.

I want to put the prestige back in prestige classes.

 

[Bagpuss]

Sounds fine to me.

No longer will characters take one level in Jedi ace to get Starfighter Operation (starfighter) for free, and then ditch the class for greener pastures.

I really must go and read my rulebook, I would have considered that a requirement not something gained on joining the class.

 

[Paul_Klein]

Well, that's a topic for another time I suppose...

But yes, it is odd.

 

[hong]

It no longer makes sense for a Jedi, in his first 8 levels to have no ranks in pilot, achieve his 9th level of play, dump 6 ranks into pilot, and take Jedi Ace at 10th level. For the vast majority of his life, he didn’t even know how to pilot a ship, and now, he’s considered an Ace?
It is VERY important to actually READ the description of the prestige class, instead of just looking at the numbers. The very first sentence of Jedi Ace, “A Jedi ace feels most at home in the cockpit of a starfighter…” illustrates what is wrong with the above example. It seems to me that the Jedi who all of a sudden did a skill dump into the Pilot skill to get the prestige class does NOT feel most at home in the cockpit of a starfighter, or else he would have been doing it most his life.

If the prestige class has been properly designed, so that its prerequisites are relevant to the class abilities, this shouldn't be a major problem. There's usually not much point in pumping your Pilot skill ranks up unless you intend to do lots of piloting. And if you that's the case, then Jedi Ace would seem an eminently reasonable PrC to aim for.

Another point about prestige classes to make is this: while there is no set number limit on the number of prestige classes one can take, by using the “new” method of obtaining prestige classes, any more than 2 different classes would be very rare. Example: I cannot fathom, in a roleplay sense, a character having Jedi Ace, Jedi Scholar and Jedi Weapon Master.

This strikes me as much ado about nothing. If someone wants to munch out as a lightsaber-wielding fighter type, then being a Jedi ace or scholar at the same time isn't going to contribute much to that objective. The same applies for someone wanting to be a super starfighter pilot, or whatever. Having lots of prestige classes doesn't necessarily mean being better at everything.

Conversely, if someone _does_ want to be totally twinked in one area of expertise, then this "flavour" or "roleplaying" requirement isn't really going to stop them. Having lots of PrCs _does_ have the potential to create a powergaming monster, if all those PrCs are related to the one schtick. This probably applies more to D&D than SW, but the principle holds.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I would have no problem with that at all, being as it reflects pretty much all my thoughts on PrC's.

 

[Maldur]

Seems reasonable. PrCs requirements should have a big RPG segment. Game play is crucial. The hard requirements ( like x ranks in a certain skill) are only a indication in powerlevel you need ( at least thats what I think) If a pc's story and experience is good enough thing can compensate for requirements in my game. ( but the story needs to be good)

 

[Aloïsius]

It no longer makes sense for a Jedi, in his first 8 levels to have no ranks in pilot, achieve his 9th level of play, dump 6 ranks into pilot, and take Jedi Ace at 10th level.

You know, even without a PrC qualification behind, I would object on such a behavior. I tend to allow only assigning up to 3 skill points in a skill that have been trained/studied/heavily used during session, 1 skill point in another (assuming the PC did minor studies in free times between sessions).

In other words, no insta-boost of 8 ranks in a skill that has never been used before.

 

[mistergone]

It all sounds pretty reasonable. In fact, it sounds reasonable enough so that one wonders "why does it even need to be said?" Either you have a problem with players twinking out their characters on prestige classes, or you are making some pre-emptive strike. If it's the former, then yeah, go ahead and hand this out to everyone. If it's the latter, I kinda think that hitting players over the head with what could be percieved as "the GM is limiting us already in some way" is maybe not the best thing to do. Rather bring it up when it comes to it, if it comes to it, than start dropping heavy-handed-sounding laws. Just guide constructive prestige classing as they go along. Players are funny in that, often they will go along happily with whatever until they think that they are somehow being denied something that might make them cooler.

 

[Arnwyn]

Prestige Classes:

In this campaign, prestige classes will not be easy to come by. That is not to mean that they are rare, per say, however, in this campaign, they are going to be more than “cool power-ups”.

Abso-fricken-lutely that sounds reasonable. I wouldn't have it any other way (and, in fact, I don't - my campaign has followed the concept you put forth from day 1). We're all happy with it.

 

[blackshirt5]

Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly. So far, only one player has shown any interest in a prestige class(actually, a legendary class), and I've already warned him that it takes a lot of in game RP and work to qualify.

Seems like something that shouldn't need to be said.