Prestige Classes need rebalancing?

[Ron]

I don't think the problem is much about the lack of front loading but rather about the level requirements. As Sartori01 wrote, most PrC requires a reasonable high level to be taken, which may not compensate the advantages of keeping focused in the original class. In my campaign style it's even worse as I don't run games over the 7th or perhaps 8th level, which greatly limit access to any PrC. I would like to see more PrC available at the fifth level. This would allow a greater variety in the lower levels by stimulating multiclassing.

 

[Hand of Evil]

PrCs are a DM option; the problem is that DMs have alloed the players to select it as an option. Prcs should be used to provide flavor to a setting and selected by the DM to best fill out his story and world.

 

[Soel]

I would like to see all PrC's dropped from 10 level to 5 level, or perhaps even 3 level classes. So, yes, more front loading, and take out all of those empty levels.

 

[reiella]

I disagree in general with the premise. I remember far too many blargh front-loaded builds from 3e. Although, I'll agree that primarily the only real initial level benefit that remains is the first level saving throw bonus. But even still, I feel the resistance to immediate power through a PrC is a good thing.

 

[Crothian]

I disagree in general with the premise. I remember far too many blargh front-loaded builds from 3e. Although, I'll agree that primarily the only real initial level benefit that remains is the first level saving throw bonus. But even still, I feel the resistance to immediate power through a PrC is a good thing.

I agree. I also think few people (probably not me) actually have a good handle on what balance truely is.

 

[MerricB]

I would like to see all PrC's dropped from 10 level to 5 level, or perhaps even 3 level classes. So, yes, more front loading, and take out all of those empty levels.

Andy Collins has mentioned that he looks to see if PrC can be dropped from 10 to 5, or from 5 to 3, or even turned into feats, when developing them.

Cheers!

 

[satori01]

PrCs are a DM option; the problem is that DMs have alloed the players to select it as an option. Prcs should be used to provide flavor to a setting and selected by the DM to best fill out his story and world.

Absolutely I agree with this 100%, and using exsisting PrCs as guides to create my own, and those profesional designed PrCs that fit the flavor I wanted, I have found....My players looked at what I had and went Meh.

Of course people dont need to have Prestige classes to belong to an organization, but there is something satisfying both as a DM and as a player to work towards a goal for a number of levels and attain it.

Again I believe it is due in no small measure to weak intial class benefits, and frankly boring mechanics for Prc. Often times the powers of a prestige class are just a rehash of other core class abillities and do not really bring out the flavor text.

Again I wonder how many DMs have had a Druid want to take a PrC? How many monk players have looked at a PrC and determined that it was worth it, not only in terms of mechanics but in terms of charecterization and focus?

As for 5 vs 10 level prestige classes, I definetly dont believe in blank lines, Bear Warrior in Complete Warrior should be a 5 level PrC, when it is 10 level PrC. Bear Warrior is a compeling concept poorly executed.

Then I look at the Dark Hunter PrC which has a very loose and poorly designed flavor, and seems to exsist soley to give a Ranger or Rogue
the abillity to have a Death Attack w/o being evil. Of course it is a 5 level PrC, and I wonder if a more focused concept over 10 levels might not inspire people to take it.

 

[Ron]

Andy Collins has mentioned that he looks to see if PrC can be dropped from 10 to 5, or from 5 to 3, or even turned into feats, when developing them.

Cheers!

That would be pretty good. As a mainly low level GM, I would have some use to PrC other than customizing some NPCs.

 

[Endur]

You don't believe in blank lines? I.e. You think every class should get a feat at every level? No wonder you see issues with balance.

As for 5 vs 10 level prestige classes, I definetly dont believe in blank lines, Bear Warrior in Complete Warrior should be a 5 level PrC, when it is 10 level PrC. Bear Warrior is a compeling concept poorly executed.

Bear Warrior is the most powerful Barbarian PRC I have seen so far. Only Frenzied Berserker competes with Bear Warrior for raw power.

 

[satori01]

No I dont believe in blank lines for a PrC. Ranger, Druid, Monk, Spellthief, Scout all have 20 levels of advancement and some class abillity gained or rasied every level, without being unbalanced, certainly the same can be done with other PrCs.

As for Bear Warrior being the most powerferul PrC for barbarians, that august group only includes from the Complete series: Bear Warrior, Frenzied Berserker, and the Eye of Grumush.

Since Frenzied Berserker is well garbage, and the Eye of Grumush a very orcish class, it does not surprise that the Bear Warrior is the "most powerful Barbarian PRC" you have seen so far.