Prestige Classes: Too much of a good thing?

[Committed Hero]

Never consider new PrCs "just because".

Unfortuately, the vast majority of prestige classes are presented this way, with no campaign backstory to back them up.

 

[Aethelstan]

No such thing as too many prestige classes. Now, not all of the are good, and many cover the same area. But there are still creative and interesting classes coming out. I'm not on the lo0okout for the latest, I'm just looking for the right ones that fit my character ideas.

I'm not sure I see the benefit of flooding D&D with lots of hit or miss PrCs. Why should we as consumers (our true relationship with WotC and d20) have to sift through piles of crud to find the good stuff? The problem with a bad PrC is that DMs and players often don't realize its unbalanced until its play tested, and then the damage is done. The fact that WotC retired or revamped lots of PrC between the old class books and the new "Complete" series shows that PrCs are tricky to design and that WotC's own designers (who are generally first rate) often get it wrong. Yet the PrCs keep coming. Do designers just love whipping new PrCs or is every new D&D book loaded up with them because they think shiny new PrCs help boost sales? Too many of these new PrCs seem like a poorly play tested grab bags of bells and whistles with which to trick out a cool (or not so cool) character concept. Yes, as a DM or player I can always pass on PrCs. But with large chucks of new books now devoted to PrCs, the appeal and usefulness of the latest "Book of X, Y, Z" is, at least for me, beginning to wane.

 

[IronWolf]

While not a huge fan of crunch heavy books, I don't mind the handful of Prestige Classes in various WotC books and certainly expect a number in the Complete books. It is optional as to what is allowed into a game at the DM's discretion, so there is some control over what is and isn't allowed. Hopefully after the Complete line of books WotC will slow down some with all the PrC's, but they don't necessarily have to eliminate them altogether.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Frankly, I think the better prestige classes are in the more specific books. WotC's Complete series, by definition, was very generic, and most of the prestige classes were as well, so it's no surprise that most of them just feel like bland power-ups. Frostburn's prestige classes, in contrast, all grow out of a setting. Their Frostfell isn't totally generic, since they include two prestige classes in conflict for the souls of a new race (the uldra) and a knight-turned-god and the prestige class of his followers. Even the more generic ones (like the frost mage) have more of a place in the world, thanks to being part of a book that is very location-specific. I only have Races of Stone, and while I liked the book for the most part, I wish there were MORE prestige classes, as each race doesn't really seem to have its flavor totally captured by them, but this would have been a great opportunity. From a glance at online previews, though, Races of the Wild seems to have done better on this.

I absolutely agree that prestige classes a) need to reward slightly sub-optimal choices made for flavor, b) have a clearly defined place in the world, and c) (somewhat distinct from the last point) need a REASON to be part of the game, beyond "it's cool." I quite like the only one prestige class per character suggestion made earlier today on this board. If you could only define yourself as a Duelist or an Archmage or a Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, that would likely push people back towards viewing the prestige classes as an identity and less as a grab bag of options.

 

[BryonD]

No such thing as too many prestige classes. Now, not all of the are good, and many cover the same area. But there are still creative and interesting classes coming out. I'm not on the lo0okout for the latest, I'm just looking for the right ones that fit my character ideas.

I agree 100%..

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

No such thing as too many prestige classes. Now, not all of the are good, and many cover the same area. But there are still creative and interesting classes coming out. I'm not on the lo0okout for the latest, I'm just looking for the right ones that fit my character ideas.

Ditto again.

 

[Crothian]

I'm not sure I see the benefit of flooding D&D with lots of hit or miss PrCs. Why should we as consumers (our true relationship with WotC and d20) have to sift through piles of crud to find the good stuff?

Becasue what you and I consider crud are not the same thing. They are not writing just for me and you, but for both of us and for Piratecat, and Mark, and even for my friend Marty (seriously they should stop writing for him, too much undead stuff already). You are not shifting through crap, you are shifting through ideas that are not for you.

 

[Ghostwind]

Too many? No. As others have said, they are entirely optional. I enjoy seeing new PrCs because I tend to mine them and mold them to fit my needs and the needs of my campaigns. I hardly ever use a PrC "out of the box" focusing on coming up with a good justification for its existence in my worlds instead and then introducing it to the players at some point, usually in the form of an NPC or adversary.

 

[Aethelstan]

Crothian, you seem to have acquired a loyal band of Ditto-heads! The fact that WotC has retired or retooled a number of PrCs suggests that they themselves know that some of what they put out is, well, crud. I don't object to PrCs just because this one or than does not suit my tastes for purely subjective reasons ("Knight of the Pink Thong...I'll pass"). Too many PrCs suffer from poor balance or iffy game mechanics. Most PrCs offer great perks at minimial cost and often create a defacto penality for players who stick with leveling in standard classes. Its not the "fluff" of PrCs that bothers me, its the inconsistant quality of the "crunch." Yes, I know any assessment of rules balance is also somewhat subjective. Yet, both on the web and in person, I've heard growing concern among gamers about the power creep and shooty rules afflicting PrCs. They like the character concepts but the rules often give them pause. If D&D is to have scores and scores of PrCs that great, but designers need to do the play testing and thoughtful tinkering required to create balanced and functional rules.

 

[Psion]

Unfortuately, the vast majority of prestige classes are presented this way, with no campaign backstory to back them up.

Do they?

The first year out, that may have been true. It seems like a lot of the newer products are especially careful to add some pluggable context.