Priest - Another not hugely fighty cleric

[Scion]

Edit: new version a few posts down, keeping the old version up just for comparison or whatever

Yeah, yeah. Everyone and their brother has come up with some alternate cleric, and it isnt really even necissary to begin with. Failing that, what do people think of this?

Priest
Hit Die: d4.
Class Skills
The priest’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff(Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information(Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 2 Domains, Turning, Spontaneous Casting
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Domain
4th +2 +1 +1 +4
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Domain
6th +3 +2 +2 +5
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Domain
8th +4 +2 +2 +6
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Domain
10th +5 +3 +3 +7
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 Bonus Feat
12th +6 +4 +4 +8
13th +6 +4 +4 +8 Bonus Feat
14th +7 +4 +4 +9
15th +7 +5 +5 +9 Bonus Feat
16th +8 +5 +5 +10
17th +8 +5 +5 +10 Bonus Feat
18th +9 +6 +6 +11
19th +9 +6 +6 +11 Bonus Feat
20th +10 +6 +6 +12 Bonus Feat


Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Priest is proficient with all simple weapons and light armor.

Deity, Domains, and Domain Spells: A priest's deity influences his alignment, what magic he can perform, his values, and how others see him. A priest chooses two domains from among those belonging to his deity. A priest can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if his alignment matches that domain.
If a priest is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.
Each domain gives the priest access to a domain spell at each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up, as well as a granted power. The priest gets the granted powers of both the domains selected.
If a particular diety does not have enough domains choose from related domains along similar lines of what the god believes in (ie talk with your dm and see what is appropriate)

Spontaneous Casting: The priest may spontanously cast any spell on his domain lists.

Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su): Any priest, regardless of alignment, has the power to affect undead creatures by channeling the power of his faith through his holy (or unholy) symbol (see Turn or Rebuke Undead).
A good priest (or a neutral priest who worships a good deity) can turn or destroy undead creatures. An evil priest (or a neutral priest who worships an evil deity) instead rebukes or commands such creatures. A neutral priest of a neutral deity must choose whether his turning ability functions as that of a good priest or an evil priest. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the priest can cast spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see above).
A priest may attempt to turn undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. A priest with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion) gets a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead.

A priest casts as many spells per day as a sorcerer of the same level. His primary casting stat is Wisdom.

Bonus Feats are any metamagic feats or divine feats (as determined by the dm).

 

[Xiryc]

I would mix things up a bit more, intermingling the domains with the feats. Oddly enough, I think so because of the strength of the domain powers. You shouldn't have that many domains before tenth level. Maybe add the option of a prestige domain at the higher levels. Other than that, it doesn't seem too bad. d4 is a bit iffy. I would make it d6, just so my players would consider this instead of Cleric.

 

[Xiryc]

Some ideas for the Priest bonus feat list, based only off of the 3.5 SRD:

Augment Summoning, Combat Casting, Diligent, Empower Spell, Enlarge Spell, Eschew Materials, Extend Spell, Extra Turning, Greater Spell Focus, Greater Spell Penetration, Heighten Spell, Improved Turning, Maximize Spell, Negotiator, Quicken Spell, Silent Spell, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Still Spell, Widen Spell.

I almost want to put Leadership on that list too.

 

[bensei]

You may want to have a look at Volume IV, Divine Casters (right click, free download) from the Umbragia setting. Some religions are still in the works, but the classes (e.g. Priest) are worked out.

The Umbragia Priest is quite similar to your suggestion, with two main differences:
- The domain system works differently
- Weapon and armor proficiencies and special class skills depend on the religion.

 

[Scion]

How about this? Gets rid of some of the problems people said before, and opens up several very interesting builds (such as the holy crusader with a bunch of the charisma based feats possibly). Could be fun!

Priest
Hit Die: d4.
Class Skills
The priest’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff(Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information(Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 2 Bonus feats, Turning, Spontaneous Casting
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Bonus feat
4th +2 +1 +1 +4
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Bonus feat
6th +3 +2 +2 +5
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Bonus feat
8th +4 +2 +2 +6
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Bonus feat
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Bonus feat
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 Bonus Feat
12th +6 +4 +4 +8
13th +6 +4 +4 +8 Bonus Feat
14th +7 +4 +4 +9
15th +7 +5 +5 +9 Bonus Feat
16th +8 +5 +5 +10
17th +8 +5 +5 +10 Bonus Feat
18th +9 +6 +6 +11
19th +9 +6 +6 +11 Bonus Feat
20th +10 +6 +6 +12 Bonus Feat


Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Priest is proficient with all simple weapons and light armor.

Deity, Domains, and Domain Spells: A priest's deity influences his alignment, what magic he can perform, his values, and how others see him. A priest chooses two domains from among those belonging to his deity. A priest can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if his alignment matches that domain.
If a priest is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.
Each domain gives the priest access to a domain spell at each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up, as well as a granted power. The priest gets the granted powers of both the domains selected.
If a particular diety does not have enough domains choose from related domains along similar lines of what the god believes in (ie talk with your dm and see what is appropriate)

Spontaneous Casting: The priest may spontanously cast any spell on his domain lists.

Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su): Any priest, regardless of alignment, has the power to affect undead creatures by channeling the power of his faith through his holy (or unholy) symbol (see Turn or Rebuke Undead).
A good priest (or a neutral priest who worships a good deity) can turn or destroy undead creatures. An evil priest (or a neutral priest who worships an evil deity) instead rebukes or commands such creatures. A neutral priest of a neutral deity must choose whether his turning ability functions as that of a good priest or an evil priest. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the priest can cast spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see above).
A priest may attempt to turn undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. A priest with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion) gets a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead.

A priest casts as many spells per day as a sorcerer of the same level. His primary casting stat is Wisdom.

Bonus Feats are any metamagic feats or divine feats, Augment Summoning, Diligent, Eschew Materials, Extra Turning, Improved Turning, Negotiator, Iron Will, Great Fortitude or a Domain. (a character cannot have more domans than their 2 + (class level/3) )

 

[bensei]

Which problems of the Cleric do you want to repair with the Priest? The main problems, as most people say, are:
1. Why should every holy man run around in heavy armor?
2. Why should every holy man have buffs like righteous might etc.?
3. Why should every holy man have a medium BAB?
4. Why should every holy man have a good Fort save?
5. Why should every holy man be able to deal with undead?
6. Why should every holy man be so limited in class skills and skill points.

As I see your Priest, you attack problems 1.,3.,4. and partly 6.
But...
ad 1.: If a standard Priest should only wear light armor, you have to impose some other restriction (e.g. priest divine spell failure) as just proficiency, since otherwise taking one level as fighter would make this priest again a full plate guy.
ad 2.: A priest taking the Strength domain may look a bit weird, as he would fall more into the role of a cleric. Depends if you want that.
ad 6.: Giving 2 more skill points seem appropriate. However, one could/should think about granting more class skills, depending on religion and/or domains chosen.
ad 5.: Why should a priest, living in his village for his whole lifetime be able to deal with undead? The Cleric can be an undead slaying dungeon crawler, but the priest does not necessarily fall into this cliche. Insetad, one could again couple this agility to religion and/or domains.

 

[Scion]

Which problems of the Cleric do you want to repair with the Priest?

hmm? who said I had a problem with the cleric? though I do feel that he only covers a small portion of what is out there for that particular genre.

ad 1.: If a standard Priest should only wear light armor, you have to impose some other restriction (e.g. priest divine spell failure) as just proficiency, since otherwise taking one level as fighter would make this priest again a full plate guy.

if he wants to take out a level from his progression (or just get the feats directly) that is fine, I wouldnt even mind if the mage was able to do this effectively.

ad 2.: A priest taking the Strength domain may look a bit weird, as he would fall more into the role of a cleric. Depends if you want that.

A once per day ability makes them into a cleric? You'll have to explain this one more I think not sure what you are driving at.

ad 6.: Giving 2 more skill points seem appropriate. However, one could/should think about granting more class skills, depending on religion and/or domains chosen.

What else do you think is appropriate? He already has 14 different skill choices, some domains do give more skill choices already, and I dont want to be too campaign specific with just a general class by saying what gods do what. That is up to the dm.

ad 5.: Why should a priest, living in his village for his whole lifetime be able to deal with undead? The Cleric can be an undead slaying dungeon crawler, but the priest does not necessarily fall into this cliche. Insetad, one could again couple this agility to religion and/or domains.

Why should a priest be able to cast spells at all? why should he be able to have any skills at all? Why should he even need a patron diety or follow a calling? Hard to say, but as this is meant to be a class used in a regular campaign and I would like them to be able to use the divine feats (many of which require turn uses) then he needs to be able to turn to use them

What I was mainly trying to do is make a class that has a lot of options and could be custumized to a great deal of builds. I think that this character does it much more than the cleric in the phb. Of course, as I made it I am somewhat biased so long as it is at least close to balanced then I'll be happy. Right now it has strong points and weak points, but overall is probably weaker than the normal cleric by quite a bit. Which is ok. With his skills he could just be the minister of some church, he could be the head of the church directing the clerics in their quests, he could be a holy liberator with various feats (which a normal character wouldnt have enough feats available to get, I have a list of 12 divine feats and to get all there are several prereq feats), or he could even fall into the party role of a fighter for a few rounds a day with the right spells.

All in all, I guess I was looking for more custumizability without having to have a severe lack of power in the end. How did I do? Along that line, can you think of any improvements? I would love to hear them

 

[bensei]

Okay.
The main question is, when you include your priest class into your game play, should it replace the cleric or be an additional choice?
In the first case, it is fine IMHO, since then Turning and Fighting spells are necessary.
In the sencond case, however, I think that a good amount of spells on the Clr list are less appropriate for the kind of character you describe in your post (e.g. the spells from the strength domain). OTHO, some spells from the Sor and Brd spell list might fit to your priest, while not appropriate for the D&D cleric.

Generally, when having Cleric and Priest in your world, they should be different archtypes. E.g. could you remove the spontaneous cating of healing spells from Clerics and give them something different as a tradeoff. Then every Priest with the healing domain will be unique and shining, and spontaneous healing is one example which fits better to the Priest as to the Cleric. OTOH, you could exclude or limit some Clr domains for Priests. On the contrary, some Sor/Brd spells could be made accessable for the Priest, too (build a new domain unique to Priests). And so on...

 

[Scion]

I'll try to respond to the rest in a bit, have to go to class right now, but I wanted to ask a quick question. What spells on the strength domain do you have a problem with? and what other spells in general are bad in your view? would like to know Can you think of any sources for domains I could l look at for ideas about making more?

 

[Scion]

What about a world that has both wizards and sorcerers? and for that matter, bards as well. They all do the same thing more or less (cast arcane spells) but people use all of them, I dont really see the difference. Having both a cleric and a priest fills different roles in different but similar ways, same as the arcane types. If anything the cleric and preist are even more different than the wizard and sorcerer are to one another.