Print On Demand solving the issue of errata

[MerricB]

Advanced Squad Leader came up with a novel device for addressing the errata issue: make the rules loose leaf, so that new errata pages could be substituted in.

Then they also did "sticky" errata which you'd paste over the existing sheet. It was formatted correctly to do that.

Unfortunately, MMP (the current maintainers of ASL) have an inconsistent and annoying approach towards errata: some is available free online, some only through products. Argh!

Cheers!

 

[the Jester]

The thing is, I *want* a hard-copy.

As for POD being more expensive, I swear I remember reading (on here in fact) about a new POD device that was going to make it far cheaper than regular print publishing. The device also was very quick and was designed to fit in a book-store environment.

In other words, you'd run down to Barnes & Noble, not Kinkos, and walk out of the store with a shiny new book for a fraction of the regular retail price.

Now I'm going to have to go and find that news article :/

Do you really think any new technology will somehow overwhelm the economy of scale of printing thousands and thousands of copies of a product? If so, do you see a way to avoid the publishers using the new technology, along with economy of scale, to save money printing thousands and thousands of copies and then selling those copies cheaper than an individual bookstore could? After all, publishers can afford to invest in the best high-end production models that churn out huge print runs cheaper. I just don't know if it is even possible to beat economy of scale, and I really doubt it.

 

[sev]

I used to print out the eratta and tape it over the old text in the books. This stopped working with the May update, in which much of the new text was much, much larger than the old stuff. Now I just stuff the printouts in the back of the book and pencil "see errata" on the pages that have changes.

My grandmother's Better Homes cookbook is in a three-ring binder. Every month, in the magazine that she probably had a subscription to, were a few more pages to stick in the cookbook. I want *that* kind of model, one which makes it easy to replace and add pages -- even if I was getting electronic delivery and printing out the replacement pages myself.

 

[Kzach]

Maybe this then is an argument to bring back PDF's for sale?

A PDF configured with enough space to punch holes in and an official binder (ooh, one that had a fold out extension that could act as a DM screen but the pages would sit flat on the table!). They did a similar thing (before PDF's were big) with the old AD&D Monster Compendium. And they were awesome.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

I used to print out the eratta and tape it over the old text in the books. This stopped working with the May update, in which much of the new text was much, much larger than the old stuff. Now I just stuff the printouts in the back of the book and pencil "see errata" on the pages that have changes.

My grandmother's Better Homes cookbook is in a three-ring binder. Every month, in the magazine that she probably had a subscription to, were a few more pages to stick in the cookbook. I want *that* kind of model, one which makes it easy to replace and add pages -- even if I was getting electronic delivery and printing out the replacement pages myself.

Hârnmaster went in a similar direction, with the rulebook being bound very light (or flimsy) and the pages three-hole-punched. Page numbering was in the format "Chapter name - page number" so that they could publish "Combat 31-38" separately. There was no subscription model involved, though.

But if you implement this model for errata, you're in a world of hurt. Thousands of customers have to be shipped different sets of pages every so often - yikes! Add the needed overhead for the registration of each single product sold.

I still stand by my vision of the future of rulebook publishing: we need a simple, introductory book, explaining how the system works. The rest, hundreds of pages of data (powers, items, monsters, spells, etc.) is delivered electronically via a subscription based service. The data files are not (only) published as PDF, but using a structured approach. Think Compendium with the ability to ask more intelligent questions and to print not only single items but filtered lists including the content:

"Give me all Warlord powers level 1-5 which have changed since that date. and print them."

"Show me all the rules-items for character Gond from the Pond which have changed since we last leveled up."

 

[The Little Raven]

There are currently 50 pages of errata for DMG1, and 43 pages for PHB1. The newer books fare better: there are only 135pg of errata for everything in the 4e line total. Still, that's pretty voluminous.

If you break down what is actually errata/rules updates, it's not as big as that page count suggests. A good deal of that is repetition and explanation for the change, not the actual change itself. For example, the actual change for Healer's Lore is to change "grant healing" with “let a creature spend a healing surge to regain hit points." That's it. However, in the text, they also include an explanation as well as the section in which the change appears in its entirety (an entire paragraph), to avoid any confusion.

Is it worth it for someone to buy PHB1 right now, since so much of it has been replaced? Or is it worth buying a newer book knowing that it too will be erratad? Or should one just buy DDI and forget about hardcopy?

The DDI doesn't have a lot of stuff. Like the basic rules to play the game. Or the rules for familiars, animal companions, and vehicles. Or the awesome skill challenge stuff in DMG2. Or the general good advice of DMG 1. Or the vast majority of Underdark, Manual of the Planes, Open Grave and books like that. There's plenty of reason to buy a good deal of the books.

 

[Stormonu]

Maybe this then is an argument to bring back PDF's for sale?

A PDF configured with enough space to punch holes in and an official binder (ooh, one that had a fold out extension that could act as a DM screen but the pages would sit flat on the table!). They did a similar thing (before PDF's were big) with the old AD&D Monster Compendium. And they were awesome.

The 2E MCs turned out to be a horrible mistake. The original idea was the monsters would be loose-leaf and replacement pages could be issued so you could keep things alphabetized. Those replacement pages never manifested and wear and tear on the individual pages was horrible. When the hardcover MC came out in late 2E, I think everyone breathed a sigh of relief.

I would not want to see that model repeated.

 

[Dausuul]

The 2E MCs turned out to be a horrible mistake. The original idea was the monsters would be loose-leaf and replacement pages could be issued so you could keep things alphabetized. Those replacement pages never manifested and wear and tear on the individual pages was horrible.

Yeah, I have bad memories of attaching little stickers to the pages to reinforce them so the binder wouldn't chew through the paper. Didn't work too well.

Not only that, but even the original idea to keep everything alphabetized didn't work--because the pages were printed on two sides. So you'd get a sheet with, say, Giant on one side and Gnoll on the other, and then you'd buy the next Compendium and get a sheet with Githyanki on it, and no way to put it in the proper order.

And the binders themselves weren't particularly durable, so the rings would get all bent out of shape after a while.

Wretched system. Three-ring binders are good for things you don't expect to need over the long term and/or don't plan to use very often, like campaign notes. They're crap for something you'll be using on a regular basis.

 

[Dausuul]

The thing is, I *want* a hard-copy.

As for POD being more expensive, I swear I remember reading (on here in fact) about a new POD device that was going to make it far cheaper than regular print publishing. The device also was very quick and was designed to fit in a book-store environment.

In other words, you'd run down to Barnes & Noble, not Kinkos, and walk out of the store with a shiny new book for a fraction of the regular retail price.

Now I'm going to have to go and find that news article :/

Is this the article you were thinking of?

 

[Shazman]

If you want "current rules" it really is pointless to buy the books. Personally, I'd prefer no errata (unless something was truly, horribly broken) than the current model of "Let's check to see how much of my character got nerfed, and if the core rules of the game still work the same." every two months.