Print On Demand solving the issue of errata

[IronWolf]

My feeling is that you have missed that the D&D Compendium is the future.

It has pretty much all of the patches you need. There are a (very) few core rules issues, which will likely be fixed with the printing of the Rules Compendium, but the DDi Compendium has pretty much everything else you need to run the game.

The problem I have is that it is subscription based.

I would rather see a game maker post the errata as freely downloadable so that those of us who bought the book can have ready access to it. That's more important to me than the errata being distributed in POD format or what have you.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I think the future is via an iPad or Kindle reader that updates the content just like any computer software.

The practical problems of Print on Demand seem difficult enough that it's better for the publisher to wait for e-readers to go mainstream. Plus, personally, I dislike printing in general, organizing the papers, etc. I'd rather have a book for static text or an e-reader for evolving content.

In fact, I bet many D&D fans would purchase an e-reader (maybe a less expensive one like Chapter-Indigo's Kobo) just to get the perks of a dynamic D&D "book". Hasbro/WoTC might even sell a D&D-branded e-reader sometime in the future (because you don't need to carry your iPad AND your D&D reader to a game session).

This:
Printing out full rulesets every time errata is released would be a pain and I for one rarely read the errata not to mind print it out.
So the rules becoming a living document is likely in the future and possibly the way this will evolve. There are issues to be overcome first. eReaders need to be more mainstream and how do you make money from a living document environment when your current business model is shipping physical books to the players is another matter.
It will likely become a part of the DDI I expect.

 

[Merkuri]

In theory, I like the idea of having an always up-to-date dead-tree copy of the rules.

But the picture some of you are painting doesn't sound like a good one to me. I see a world where you buy a new PHB each month and throw out the old one. That just seems like a gigantic waste to me.

If there's one thing I hate, it's throwing out books. I never look at it, but I have my college physics book still on my shelf somewhere (the one they wouldn't buy back because they were using the new edition next year). I don't have the heart to throw it out because it's a book! Somewhere around here I also have books 1-5 of the Wheel of Time in paperback, some in multiple pieces, some glued back together multiple times, and others held together with rubber bands (paperback books that thick don't hold up to multiple readings - or sometimes even single readings) and I can't throw those out either, even though I now have hardcover copies of them all.

So in a world where one can get an updated physical copy of the PHB means I will have to choose between having redundant copies of books on my shelf (or stored away in a box somewhere), having to break my heart by throwing out old copies of these books, or deal with having a non-updated copy.

Having something electronic that's updated as soon as the errata is released is much better, IMO.

 

[MerricB]

The problem I have is that it is subscription based.

I would rather see a game maker post the errata as freely downloadable so that those of us who bought the book can have ready access to it. That's more important to me than the errata being distributed in POD format or what have you.

Wizards makes the errata freely available.

 

[NoWayJose]

...and how do you make money from a living document environment when your current business model is shipping physical books to the players is another matter.

Books (especially fluff books) could still be sold in hardcover alongside the e-reader format. It doesn't have to be either/or, market taste will dictate.

I read that profit margins are actually higher with digital books.

 

[IronWolf]

Wizards makes the errata freely available.

Correct. I was commenting on that you called the D&D Compendium the future, implying that there was no need to more efficiently handle errata for all of their customers. I read that as you believing Wizards has solved this issue already, I may have misunderstood what you meant.

 

[Zulithe]

The thing that bugs me is WotC often does not even release errata'd copies of their books PERIOD, let alone soon after the errata becomes official.

Look at Paizo. They have PRINT, HARDCOVER editions of their manuals with latest errata. I ordered a copy of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and Bestiary earlier this month, and they are 3rd and 2nd printings respectively (the latest, and both sets of errata are very recent, too)

If a small company like Paizo can do it, WotC has no excuse. I really don't care what they have to do to make it happen. They need to make it happen.

Wizards also needs to understand that errata'd copies of their books can also translate into more sales. Plenty of people would buy the updated copies just to have the updates all nicely bound and integrated right on their shelf. This is a very geek and plugged-in userbase. We notice these things.

I'm not suggesting that every time errata comes out (every 30-90 days or so) they need to release updated hardcopies. Some waves of errata are more substantial than others. In my mind, there have been two 'major' waves of errata thus far--the 1st being when the stealth rules were updated, and the 2nd more recently when Magic Missile et. al. were updated. Those would be good times to print new editions of the PHB, for example.

Small note here... I know there are errata'd versions of the first 3 core manuals (with errata circa Jan 2009), but those were released as Deluxe products, and I don't know if they ever released those editions as the normal hardbound editions... I'm guessing no.

 

[malraux]

The thing that bugs me is WotC often does not even release errata'd copies of their books PERIOD, let alone soon after the errata becomes official.

Look at Paizo. They have PRINT, HARDCOVER editions of their manuals with latest errata. I ordered a copy of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and Bestiary earlier this month, and they are 3rd and 2nd printings respectively (the latest, and both sets of errata are very recent, too)

If a small company like Paizo can do it, WotC has no excuse. I really don't care what they have to do to make it happen. They need to make it happen.

Wizards also needs to understand that errata'd copies of their books can also translate into more sales. Plenty of people would buy the updated copies just to have the updates all nicely bound and integrated right on their shelf. This is a very geek and plugged-in userbase. We notice these things.

I'm not suggesting that every time errata comes out (every 30-90 days or so) they need to release updated hardcopies. Some waves of errata are more substantial than others. In my mind, there have been two 'major' waves of errata thus far--the 1st being when the stealth rules were updated, and the 2nd more recently when Magic Missile et. al. were updated. Those would be good times to print new editions of the PHB, for example.

Small note here... I know there are errata'd versions of the first 3 core manuals (with errata circa Jan 2009), but those were released as Deluxe products, and I don't know if they ever released those editions as the normal hardbound editions... I'm guessing no.

I wouldn't be surprised if it has to do with relative economies of scale. The savings from only printing the PHB every other year or so might outweigh the benefit of a few more purchases based on errata.

There's also the danger of making your product stock obsolete. You aren't helping game stores if they have to trash/discount obsolete PHBs every 6 months or so.

 

[MerricB]

Correct. I was commenting on that you called the D&D Compendium the future, implying that there was no need to more efficiently handle errata for all of their customers. I read that as you believing Wizards has solved this issue already, I may have misunderstood what you meant.

You did. The future is now: Wizards now have a really good way of distributing errata: the D&D Compendium and Character Builder. 99% of errata will likely be to words that are in those sources. They should (and will) maintain the free errata as well, but by its very nature it just can't be as good.

Would it be nice if they had a PDF of the rulebook which they kept updated? Yeah, it really would. Unfortunately, this is something that is likely just Too Expensive. Although updating a few words here or there isn't really too much to ask for, unfortunately it is a lot more involved than that: layout is a pain. Once you have this happening to multiple books every month - as they do - urgh!

Cheers!

 

[Kzach]

You did. The future is now: Wizards now have a really good way of distributing errata: the D&D Compendium and Character Builder. 99% of errata will likely be to words that are in those sources. They should (and will) maintain the free errata as well, but by its very nature it just can't be as good.

Respectfully I have to disagree.

The Compendium is great IF you know (exactly) what you're looking for. If you don't, then it's awful. You could spend hours searching for something. The search engine itself is horrible. I've often searched for something and simply had the incorrect tense and it would come up with nothing. So I'd have to try every permutation of the word I could think of until I was lucky enough to hit on the right one, if I did at all.

The real problem with that is that it's not in an easily readable layout where one logical conclusion follows on to another. How do hit points interact with abilities and weapons and damage? None of that is covered in the Compendium. Yet these things have changed, and often not in subtle ways.

Then there's the reverse problem. How do I know it's been changed? If I'm flipping through the book, how the hell do I know if a rule's been changed or not? All the 'solutions' are crappy. I don't want to mark my book. I don't want loose-leafs flopping about in-between pages. And copy-paste... seriously? No.

In other words, it's a nuisance.

Would it be nice if they had a PDF of the rulebook which they kept updated? Yeah, it really would. Unfortunately, this is something that is likely just Too Expensive. Although updating a few words here or there isn't really too much to ask for, unfortunately it is a lot more involved than that: layout is a pain. Once you have this happening to multiple books every month - as they do - urgh!

Y'know, I've worked for a magazine as an assistant to an editor and I've studied both as a hobby and through courses, layout and design. I am no expert, by any measure, but I am constantly seeing people espouse the opinion that layout is difficult.

It's really not. It's a piece of friggin cake. InDesign and Quark are like any other program. Once you learn the fundamental tools within it, you can quickly and easily manipulate files. And the more skilled and practiced you are, the quicker you can do it. Altering content within a predefined print layout really isn't that time-consuming. All the hard work has been done already. The content that they're altering every few months would take someone at a professional level of skill, at most a few hours to incorporate in a PDF document just before release.

Two or three hours every two or three months is chump-change for a service that would massively increase WotC's popularity, and decrease their detractors.