D&D 5E Problem Choosing Solos to Challenge The Party

[Uchawi]

I would like to see some tools that make monsters progressively more challenging, which include templates, monsters class/tiers, and ultimately legendary creatures. What I don't want to see is every creature that is considered solo will need a legendary template. There should be a method, similar to class levels, to increase the strength and abilities of a monster gradually.

 

[Aloïsius]

Whatever the edition you use, the action economy causes any solo monster to be at a huge handicap against the PC, especially if there are more than 3 PCs.

I think the solution is to use the encounter setting to even the odds. The fight should happens in a place where PC ha PCs are as much hampered by the environnement as if there was a few other monsters.

- difficult terrain that slow them.
- hazards, that can wound them.
- traps that the monster can activate for free.
- places that strictly restric their movements, like a maze of small tunnels where the giant snake or the wererats can move without restriction, but where the PC can't follow nor fight. Likewise, if there are chasm, cliffs and so on, it can restrict the PC ability to flank the monster.
- other effects, like fog that deny ranged attacks, anti-magic zone (ok...), silence, underwater or aerial fighting and so on.

 

[surfarcher]

Been playtesting seriously only since november/december, but campaign is going well and my players are halfway through level 9. IME, the monsters are the part of Next that require the most tweaking. I find, if balance vis-a-vis the encounter guidelines is what you are looking for, they need a boost, both AC, to hit and hit points. I have found this Website to give out some really good advice. I have grabbed much of the info there, put together with my own experience from playing and made this cheat-sheet, which I use to change my monsters.

Glad you got some mileage out of my posts! I just posted the Damage Review if you want to fix damage in your table... It's quite lacking at higher levels in the public beta.

 

[Quickleaf]

I've been out of the 5e loop for a bit, but I am surprised you're discussing a Wyvern as a "solo monster". Clearly in the OP it was being used as a "solo" in the sense of one monster alone vs. the PCs, but are wyverns designed specially as "solo monsters" in 5e? In no prior edition of D&D have I thought of them that way...mostly I'd seen them used as mounts, as pack attackers, or rarely as a lone monster against lower level PCs. In the OP there's a 6th level Wyvern vs. a party of six 6th level PCs...my gut instinct is that the Wyvern was badly outmatched. Not to mention the party's ambush & positioning superiority (which should be rewarded, right?).

Is there even a "solo monster" designation/design criteria for 5e? The closest I've seen was the Legendary Black Dragon.

 

[surfarcher]

In D&D Next the Wyvern is clearly a Tough monster, not a Solo one.

Is there a Solo designation? Let me answer with a question - Is there a minion/easy or tough designation?

The answer is "no", there are none of those in the D&D Next Bestiary! All that's present is a level indicator and an xp reward.

But if you crunch the numbers you'll see there are a number of monsters clearly intended to be Solo type creatures. Like the Behir, Chimera and the Stone Giant, to give some L7 examples.


As to D&D 5e, well that's not know. We know the CR system is now in place... But anything else is pure conjecture.

 

[Sadras]

I'm just not sure which creature to choose to challenge the party, without a likely TPK. Any suggestions?

I generally customise monsters especially if it is a solo.
Probably do not raise the Armour Class, but give creatures such as Dragons/Wyverns with scales Resistance.
Explain to them the imperviousness of the scales and allow for when the creature becomes bloodied (stolen from 4e), that enough areas of the scales have been chipped away, torn, cracked...etc - that it becomes easier for experience adventurers to aim for the exposed areas - and therefore the Dragon/Wyvern loses its Resistance.
Use the rules to add a sense of realism to the Monsters.

Also if it is a solo, buff up the hit points a little more - don't use the suggested average rather opt for 75-100% of the max for that HD. The monster stats, for me, reflect your standard Dragon/Wyvern not the adventure's BBEG.

And if you must, throw in an "Action Point" from 4e, for that additional surprising action of desperation by the BBEG. It will surely surprise your players.

Lastly, perhaps convert one of its attacks to a parry - acting as a reaction, so it loses that attack on its next round. If it successfully parries it counters the PCs attack, swiping away the blade with its claw, or its tail flicks the arrow to the side...

 

[Stalker0]

I do hope they include the solo concept in 5e. While it took some time to get it right in 4e I think they eventually did, and their rationale is spot on:


You can't just make a monster tougher and expect it to challenge a party. Either the action economy kills the monster, or the monster is so tough it just reams the players. The solo concept was the correct way to approach the problem...you have to make a monster "different" to do the job.

 

[surfarcher]

I do hope they include the solo concept in 5e. While it took some time to get it right in 4e I think they eventually did, and their rationale is spot on:

You can't just make a monster tougher and expect it to challenge a party. Either the action economy kills the monster, or the monster is so tough it just reams the players. The solo concept was the correct way to approach the problem...you have to make a monster "different" to do the job.

The thing is the Solo type ignored the the impact that action denial and some status effects could have on the Solo. Plus Solos tend to be overall somewhat weaker than 4 normal monsters of the same level.

I reckon Legendary creatures are a good way of approaching these issues and I expect we'll see whatever Legendary critters turned into throughout the new edition. I do expect monster builders will still need to be mindful of problematic status effects tho.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I think 6 pcs at 4th need at least an 8th level single creature foe using playtest rules. Less if its designed as a true solo with bonus actions etc -legendary template.

 

[surfarcher]

I think 6 pcs at 4th need at least an 8th level single creature foe using playtest rules. Less if its designed as a true solo with bonus actions etc -legendary template.

With corrected math and bonus actions, etc I think it'll be closer a level 5 Solo...