Problem Player

[MoC]

In my group we have a star. And I hate stars with a passion. One who monopolizes the game and about three times every session wants to go off and do something on his own... taking up a huge chunk of gametime.

Now, I wouldn't mind if it was once in a while... but we're playing Werewolf*ducks head in shame* so the Lone Wolf act doesn't work.

Unfortunately, I'm not the GM. But they are also very interested in a game I want to put together that hasn't garnered a lot of interest. And I really want to do that game.

I've considered finding a program that can let me time the amount of gametime each player gets, and then show everyone(w/out names) the times. And then say something like "I'm not showing names, but I want you all to think back on this session and to aim for the middle of the pack." Also have someone that barely speaks in game, so that might help them too... hopefully. And it would help me be fair too.

But I think that would be seen as slightly antagonistic, would it not?

Any suggestions? Other than booting? Booting is not an option, they have the "Sleeping with the Current GM" Card.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Maybe you can take over DMing.

 

[DestroyYouAlot]

Huh. Is the current GM aware of the situation? (Looking at the "Sleeping with current GM" line, possibly not - or they may see it as an inevitable consequence of playing with the SO.)

May not be all that helpful to you in your current situation, but - from a GM point of view, and as someone who will bend over backwards to avoid telling PCs (as opposed to players) what to do - I'd let them do whatever the hell they want, go off alone, whatever. Fine.

But it all happens "off-camera."

The "camera" is on the PC group. Anyone can go off on their own, but their actions don't get attention - maybe a dice roll or two to get results for things that need randomizing, otherwise just give them a brief blurb summing up what happens to them, and then back to the action. They'll experience a slight loss of control - not being able to analyze every piece of info, play out every combat, make every decision - but that's what happens when a character isn't "on camera." You want to be part of the action, stay where the action is (i.e., with the group).


That's how I'd handle it, at least.


As for your finding a program to track this thing - I don't see how that's possible. My best bet would be to track it on a piece of graph paper - time scale across the top (in, I don't know, 10? 15 minute intervals?), player list down the side. But it's gonna be filtered through your own perceptions, no matter what - and, of course, you'd have to split your attention from actually playing the damn game, so you'd need to decide whether this is a worthwhile use of your time.

 

[Slander]

Plan A) Communicate. Talk to superstar, the GM, or both ... let them know the current dynamic makes you feel marginalized. You need to be careful to ensure your communication comes across as honest and not hostile.

Plan B) If plan A fails, suck it up, accept things aren't going to change, and take joy in the parts of the game you do like. Continue as a PC, or only play with the group while you are GM so you can better moderate the group dynamic.

Plan C) If plan B isn't appetizing, give the boot. To yourself. Not everyone is a compatible gamer, and there will be other groups.

A program showing how much limelight each player receives during a session won't resolve anything more than communication would. And communication is much faster. I wouldn't bother.

 

[Oryan77]

Does the DM just stop the regular part of the game and focus on the lone wolf until she's finished her solo trip?

I've never had a problem when players separate for a bit. Although, I admit that that doesn't happen all too often in my group. But I've always been good at giving face time to both scenes. I treat it almost like initiative rounds without actually rolling for initiative. So I go back and forth asking each "party" what they are doing next. If two separate combats happen to break out, I take turns dealing with the round for each combat.

I can understand the problem if the other players don't have anything to do while the lone wolf solos, then they'll just wait for the lone wolf to come back so the group can continue on the adventure. But as a DM, I always make sure each party is doing something if they aren't initiating it on their own. If the lone wolf is doing his thing, then I create a simple scenario for the other group real quick. It can be as typical as being harassed by guards or threatened by thugs or a drunk.

I try to use the "yes you can" motto in D&D rather than the "no you can't/shouldn't". The game is much more fun if each player not only feels like he's effecting the world as a group, but also that he has an effect on the world as an individual.

Maybe it'll be easier to tell the DM that he should also entertain you guys while he's entertaining his lone wolf more than it would be to tell him to deal with his gf hogging the spotlight. Just say, "Hey, when Superstar is running off on her own, can you come up with some scenario to run for us at the same time and take turns with us so we aren't bored and waiting for her to finish?"

 

[Doug McCrae]

I've considered finding a program that can let me time the amount of gametime each player gets, and then show everyone(w/out names) the times. And then say something like "I'm not showing names, but I want you all to think back on this session and to aim for the middle of the pack." Also have someone that barely speaks in game, so that might help them too... hopefully. And it would help me be fair too.

But I think that would be seen as slightly antagonistic, would it not?

It's not antagonistic enough. There's no reason you can't just say, "I think your character has been getting far too much spotlight time and it's unfair to the other players." There's no need to go through the rigmarole of counting the seconds if it's that obvious. Be specific about who is causing the problem so there's no doubt about what you think.

A large part of it is probably the SO thing. It's a classic GMing problem. One which won't exist when you GM.

Well, unless you start sleeping with the problem player. Hey, maybe he's a GM groupie.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

I think Oryan has summed it up nicely, that's the way a GM should run their game. MoC: Your's isn't doing that but as suggested by others talk to them and explain your point of view. Demand (in the nicest possible way) a little screen time of your own. Of course the other players (not just yourself or the star) should also get their CU time too. This can make games go slowly but not necessarily make them unfun. Everyone likes to ham it up a bit.

The "party" method of play (ie: the group does everything together) gives everyone a bit of time and is much more egalitarian. It's my preferred method because the game is a social one and everyone is playing together. I do urge players to do things as a group most of the time. Now and then one someone does grandstand a bit (and we all like to at least a bit ) and that's fine, it makes a nice change up from the rest of the game.

slightly off topic: I always thought of WoD games as encouraging solo play. That whole "Oh the pain, the pain" angsty stuff. But that's just the way I've felt when I've played them.

And more off topic: why be ashamed (even jokingly) of the game you play? None of this RPG hobby exactly fits into the category "cool." If it did I'd quit tomorrow!!!

Good luck and just remember to say: "I'm ready for close up, Mr. DeVille."

 

[MoC]

Thank you all for the "Communication" Route. I'd considered it, but discarded it. It probably is the best route.

I play WOD & D20 and the D20 players think it's dumb.

WoD soloing... Vampire yes, Werewolf not so much. If you read the background info, and the descriptive blurbs of actions, almost all of them involve more than one PC. Added into the punishment called Shunning in which a werewolf is not acknowledged at all for an unknown period of time, and Ostracism, which is seen as catastrophic to a werewolf, to be cut off from the pack and the werewolf nation. So the pack is pretty much everything to a werewolf. Of course, sometimes you need a scout to go off on their own or the person that fulfills a specific need to do something, but the idea behind playing a werewolf is to be a part of the whole. The whole being the pack.

And to my mind, when you've got a Lone Wolf trying to be the sole main character... the act of playing Werewolf becomes a mockery.

 

[werk]

But they are also very interested in a game I want to put together that hasn't garnered a lot of interest.

This line confuses me...

Are they or are they not interested in you taking over?

You taking charge seems the best solution.

In that vein, a great solution that has worked for me in the past in this exact situation is demanding equal time right while it's happening...OK, that was about 10 minutes with him while we watched, now let's go to the three of us and we'll come back to you in 30 mins. During your 30 mins, get into some conflict or progress the story line...make sure the player definitely feels like his character is 'missing out'. I find when you start doing this, the star generally gets the point, usually the first time.

Often situations like this come up because one person is either selfish or simply doesn't realize what they are doing (monopolizing shared time), and the leader/GM/DM/storyteller is leniant or is somehow discouraged from correcting that player's behavior. If you as a player step in and take the lead, it kicks the leader into action and they can take it from there.


Communication is good, but in this case, I'd just try fixing it myself, and if there's push-back or some other problems, then open communication is definitely required. It's about wasted time, they should solo when the group isn't there waiting.

 

[Flynn]

I used to game with a guy that did this kind of thing all the time, no matter who the DM was. He wanted to be the lone wolf, beholding to none, and bucking the "party leader" and the party as a consequence.

Now, every time I game with him, I make him the leader. I follow his character everywhere, and give him accountability he isn't asking for, since he's the leader. He gets frustrated by it at times, but there's no more lone wolf issues and I took my character where the action was, which was in his spotlight.

Make it your character's business to join her in her side treks, follow her around, become the puppy on her heels, so to speak, and take back some of that limelight. She can't be the star if you are taking time away by focusing on making her share it. The story won't go where it used to, but you'll get more airtime.

And maybe she'll stop.

Even if she doesn't, though, you get to play more, and you get the added passive-aggressive pleasure of watching her squirm as you keep taking the DM's attention to follow her or interact with her plans.

Of course, this is only a suggestion. It handled my lone wolf problem long ago, and I hope it can be of benefit to you.

Ultimately, though, you probably need to make a decision. Is the game worth your time? If it isn't, go elsewhere. You can always find a new game, or if all else fails, a better way to spend your time than sitting at a table watching the GM roleplay with their SO in some weird kind of RPG Theater.

With Regards,
Flynn