D&D 3E/3.5 problem spells in 3.5

[dwayne]

First let me say if you are having issues with these spells and are a GM then you should stop and do some thing else because you are not 1, very creative 2, too much of a rules lawyer and 3, a whiner. Now if you are not a GM then it does not matter but for the GM who is helpless or needs to be told what to use or not here is a bit of advice. Don't use them.............simple.

I have been a GM for close to 30 years give or take a few and have been through every incarnation of D&D from the box sets with the light blue dice to D&D next, and can say there is always a way to counter any thing if you know they have spells like fog cloud or what ever take it in account just don't do it all the time will get old if can't get an advantage once in a while. but make them use what they have for an encounter. Make the PC's work for you I am running a game now that I don't even have to do much work as the PC's are so into their characters they are writing the story almost themselves sometimes I just sit a listen to the enter player action. Its in a modern setting with D20 modern rules which has low magic from the modern system, I have completely redone the system fixing the holes and using the vitality wound system from starwars and removed multiclassing and advance classes (there more like talent trees now but with requirements ) there are only 5 base classes. any class can pick any advanced class(talent tree) they want the basic talent trees are still tied to each of the classes in some way and some more than one. Lots of feats and Armor as DR and with guns doing more damage it has a very hard core feel to it. I almost have it all put together just fixing some errors and left over works from meshing the different elements together,

 

[MortalPlague]

What? No split ray metamagic? Come on man. You gotta split it for only +2 levels, +1 if you take a feat. Instead of losing 4 levels for maximized you can have them lose 2d4.

Haha... I'm just covering the vanilla, easy cheese. My buddy built a high level wizard whose opening salvo was quickened maximized enlarged enervation (using a metamagic rod for quickened) followed by a maximized enlarged enervation. That's 12 levels. Still no save.

 

[MortalPlague]

First let me say if you are having issues with these spells and are a GM then you should stop and do some thing else because you are not 1, very creative 2, too much of a rules lawyer and 3, a whiner. Now if you are not a GM then it does not matter but for the GM who is helpless or needs to be told what to use or not here is a bit of advice. Don't use them.............simple.

Sir, I'm happy for you, that you have everything figured out. This thread was talking about spells with the potential to cause problems. Sure, many of them can be countered with a bit of common sense on the part of the DM, but that doesn't change the fact that these spells have the potential, as written, to break the game. If a single spell can nullify any encounter you throw at the party, that's a problem spell. Plain and simple.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Greater Invisibility / Displacement - 50% miss chance is OP
Invisibility - It's an infinite hide check for 1 min/level at level 3
Divination - Notable for smashing campaigns and thwarting DMs who try to slap casters back in line at the very low spell level of 4 and being available to wizards AND clerics
Knock - Makes rogues useless

Something to note about a few of these is they aren't actually as powerful as claimed to be. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#invisibility]Invisibility[/url] is not an infinite hide check since even a http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm]DC 20 spot check[/url] generally alerts someone to an invisible creature near them. Likewise, the invisibility entry itself has Listen DCs to detect the creature. Once alerted it can sometimes just be a matter of tossing some flour around (Dungeonscape has the specific use for this) to negate invisibility. I recall rules about invisibility being given a +40 to hide. Could be toned down, I agree, but it's certainly not "infinite."

The DMG has a few paragraphs on divinations and how to handle them, in particular mentioning that finding out the identity of a murderer is one thing, but tracking that person down is quite another, even with other divinations. Let's face it, murder mysteries aren't exactly mysterious in a high magic setting like D&D where http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm]speaking with the dead[/url] is bound to happen.

I wouldn't call 4th level spells "very low" either. 0-2, sure. 3, maybe. 4? No. That usually requires at least a 7th level character which is starting into mid levels and has definitely progressed past "very low level."

I would hope the rogue has more uses than just using Open Lock/Disable Device. Plus the spell can't be used all day so there should still be plenty of opportunities for the rogue to shine or the big stupid fighter to just give something a good bash if the situation calls for it.


One of the problems spells that's been going around since Frostburn: http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/shivering-touch--1291/]Shivering Touch[/url]. Mostly for taking out dragons who are notorious for having both low Dex and low Touch AC, and getting around SR isn't much of a problem. Keep in mind that a creature whose Dex is 0 is paralyzed, thus helpless and subject to a coup de grace.

 

[Bluenose]

Detect Thoughts. Mysteries? Queries about someone's motives? What are those?

Blur. Congratulations, a 2nd level spell that gives you immunity to sneak attack (not that it's hard to get that).

Ray of Exhaustion. -6 to Strength and Dexterity and half speed for an hour. After which they get to only be Fatigued. Not as crippling as Slow, but part of the package of SoS spells that turn fights into executions.

 

[Grogg of the North]

Grease. After having a player constantly making me make balance checks because "ho ho, the developers were stupid and didn't give any monsters balance!" I began to hate that spell. And any spell with "Make a balance check" in it's entry, like ice slick. If it was just a reflex save, I don't think I'd care nearly as much. The floor is slippy, make a reflex save, move on. And I know it's not a spell, but my hatred extends to marbles as well.

Polymorph spells. I don't think I've ever really had them used by players when I DM. But I, personally, find the book keeping way too much of a head ache and just pretend that entire group of spells don't exist. I did like the way that Pathfinder did it though, with just set adjustments.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Antimagic Field. Makes it almost impossible to have a high level solo caster as the party's opponent. Just cast it and then have one melee type grapple the solo caster, and another one stab the caster to death... heck, it lasts 10 minutes/level, so lasts at least 110 minutes. Even contingencies are zapped by it, at least until expiration.

Question, though.

BBEG with a contingent resurrection spell cast on him. (One of the splat books had it as possible, if you took a permanent -2 to your CON. I had it cast by one of the BBEG's lieutenants as a way to gain favor in the strict lawful evil hierarchy.) PCs cast Antimagic Field and do the above - grapple BBEG, stab him and cut his head off. Once the spell is dismissed or expires, which part of the BBEG comes back to life via the contingent resurrection - the head or the body? Or, what happens if they toss the head or body outside the anti-magic field? Does the part outside the field get resurrected?

 

[Greenfield]

I have at least a partial solution to Polymorph, and the Summon Monster spells.

My gripe with Summon Monster spells is that they often summon templated versions of standard book monsters. Fiendish or Celestial is the usual add on, but the players end up spending a lot of time trying to add the templates on the fly so they can figure out what their temporary critter can actually do.

The Polymorph spells have a similar problem: Somebody decides to become a Fairy Dragon, then we spend far too long trying to determine what the almost-a-fairydragon can do.

My solution (to at least that aspect) is to tell the players: "If you don't know what the creature/form can do, then you can't do it. Do your homework ahead of time."

It's like the player who, upon rolling an attack, has to sit there and and take his/her BAB, add in ability modifiers, magic weapon bonuses, and applicable feats every time. I tell them, "Calculate it one time, and write it down next to that weapon on your sheet. " The good character sheet programs do it automatically, but I've seen players who don't use such things or, worse yet, do use them but don't know what that "funny number" on the sheet is, and re-do the math every time anyway.

So, for any attack, spell, summoning, item, feat or what-have-you, do your homework before you try it in game. The guy who picks a spell from his sheet and declares that he's throwing it, then has to go find the book to see what it actually does drives me crazy.

Okay, crazier. And I can't afford to be much crazier than I already am.

 

[Greenfield]

Antimagic Field. Makes it almost impossible to have a high level solo caster as the party's opponent. Just cast it and then have one melee type grapple the solo caster, and another one stab the caster to death... heck, it lasts 10 minutes/level, so lasts at least 110 minutes. Even contingencies are zapped by it, at least until expiration.

Question, though.

BBEG with a contingent resurrection spell cast on him. (One of the splat books had it as possible, if you took a permanent -2 to your CON. I had it cast by one of the BBEG's lieutenants as a way to gain favor in the strict lawful evil hierarchy.) PCs cast Antimagic Field and do the above - grapple BBEG, stab him and cut his head off. Once the spell is dismissed or expires, which part of the BBEG comes back to life via the contingent resurrection - the head or the body? Or, what happens if they toss the head or body outside the anti-magic field? Does the part outside the field get resurrected?

Resurrection can bring back someone who's been chopped to pieces or burned to ashes.

Exactly which piece comes back is actually irrelevant. The *character* comes back from whichever piece is available. In essence, it creates a new body from the shreds/ashes/whatever.

Note the caveat though: Resurrection is a 7th level spell. Contingency only applies to spells up to 6th level. Further, the only valid target for the spell is the caster, and they must have a caster level of three times the level of the spell being set in reserve, so even if it could be done it would require an Epic caster to do it. So some splat book may say it can be done, but the Contingency spell itself says that it can't.

A similar effect can be achieved using the Craft Contingent Spell feat, but the recipient has to sit still for several days of ritual, something megalomaniacal BBEGs seldom have patience for.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Resurrection can bring back someone who's been chopped to pieces or burned to ashes.

Exactly which piece comes back is actually irrelevant. The *character* comes back from whichever piece is available. In essence, it creates a new body from the shreds/ashes/whatever.

Note the caveat though: Resurrection is a 7th level spell. Contingency only applies to spells up to 6th level. Further, the only valid target for the spell is the caster, and they must have a caster level of three times the level of the spell being set in reserve, so even if it could be done it would require an Epic caster to do it. So some splat book may say it can be done, but the Contingency spell itself says that it can't.

A similar effect can be achieved using the Craft Contingent Spell feat, but the recipient has to sit still for several days of ritual, something megalomaniacal BBEGs seldom have patience for.

I'll have to go back in time to find my email to my old gaming group, but there is a WotC splat book that has a contingent resurrection spell that means a permanent loss of 2 points of CON.