D&D 3E/3.5 problem spells in 3.5

[Grogg of the North]

I'll have to go back in time to find my email to my old gaming group, but there is a WotC splat book that has a contingent resurrection spell that means a permanent loss of 2 points of CON.

The spell you're looking for is Death Pact. It's an 8th level spell. In Complete Divine you burn 250 xp, snort some diamond dust and take a permanent -2 con. On your death you get a Word of Recall and then a Raise Dead is cast on you.

My problem comes with the Spell Compendium version. Again, an 8th level spell. No XP cost, but you still take -2 con and snort diamonds. However, you get a True Resurrection. Yea, you cast an 8th level spell to get a 9th level spell on contingency. Yet another reason I'm glad I never bought Spell Compendium.

If it's not too late, can I add the Spell Compendium version of Death Pact to my list of problem spells?

 

[NewJeffCT]

The spell you're looking for is Death Pact. It's an 8th level spell. In Complete Divine you burn 250 xp, snort some diamond dust and take a permanent -2 con. On your death you get a Word of Recall and then a Raise Dead is cast on you.

My problem comes with the Spell Compendium version. Again, an 8th level spell. No XP cost, but you still take -2 con and snort diamonds. However, you get a True Resurrection. Yea, you cast an 8th level spell to get a 9th level spell on contingency. Yet another reason I'm glad I never bought Spell Compendium.

If it's not too late, can I add the Spell Compendium version of Death Pact to my list of problem spells?

To be honest, I think if I were to DM 3.5e again, I'd just ban the Spell Compendium outright.

 

[sheadunne]

Haha... I'm just covering the vanilla, easy cheese. My buddy built a high level wizard whose opening salvo was quickened maximized enlarged enervation (using a metamagic rod for quickened) followed by a maximized enlarged enervation. That's 12 levels. Still no save.

Thankfully it can be blocked easily enough with a simple 4th level spell, ray deflection, which, while we're on the topic, is way over powered.

 

[Dark Dragon]

After over 20 years of playing and DMing (A)D&D, we agreed now in one 3.5 group after some intensive discussion a long list of spells that we considered story-breaking or simply overpowered. Plus, the selection of spells is limited to the PHB, ELH, FRCS, PGtF, Complete Scoundrel, Mage, Warrior, Adventurer, Divine, Arcane. The DM may allow a spell now and then from another source, but that is very rare.

To note, the group is not using the spell slot system, but instead uses spell point pools that tap the casters when they cast a spell. In fact, they can cast any spell they know as long as they have sufficient energy in their pools. In addition, all classes get +2 extra skill points at each level.

Criteria for a spell ban:
Casting time "immediate" or "swift": banned. Feather Fall is the only exception.
Is it a "Detect XYZ" spell: banned. Yes, that includes Detect Magic, Poison, Traps. And the Paladin ability as well. Use Sense Motive to get an idea of the alignment. And illusions and magical traps can be used. We had seen overuse of Detect Magic by our Warlock. Not nice.
Is it a "Discern XYZ" spell: banned. Now you can play a story around a kidnapped person even at higher levels.
Is it a "Speak with XYZ" spell: banned. Now you can develop a story about murder without resorting to several magical counter effects to let Speak with Dead fail...
Is it a "XYZ Lorecall" spell: banned. No cheesy extra skill boni please.
Is it a "Know XYZ" spell: banned. Use your skills instead.
Is it a "Locate XYZ" spell: banned. Use your skills instead, listen to the clues given by the DM.
Is it a spell with the [Scrying] descriptor: banned.
Is it a spell with the [Teleportation] descriptor: banned. Includes spell-like and supernatural effects as well. Exceptions are Planeshift and Maze.
Is it a spell that contacts a deity or its servitors: banned. In fact, Commune, Commune, with Nature, Augury, Omen of Peril, Divination, Contact other Plane are banned, i.e., all spells that may give an answer or idea to a problem that the players are unwilling to resolve by thinking and/or non-magical means.

Spells that do not fall into one of the above criteria are:
Comprehend Languages and Tongues: use your (extra) skills points.
Legend Lore, Vision: wizards = bards? Nope.
Windwalk: has seen too much abuse. Banned.
Arcane Sight (Greater): Both were just nasty, as Detect Magic. Banned.
Stone Tell: as Speak with XYZ. Banned.
Wieldskill, Warning: cheese = banned.
Weather Eye: use your Survival skill. Banned.
Zone of Truth: see Discern Lies. Banned.
Read Magic: banned. Use your extra skill points.

Shapechange, Polymorph any Object: under debate, possibly either to be banned or significantly reduced in duration.
Mind Blank: under debate, may be significantly reduced in duration.

 

[Greenfield]

Hmm You seem to have excluded all information gathering spells and abilities. Not sure I agree, but it's your game.

Our current campaign removed Teleport and it's greater kin, but left Dimension Door in place. Our reasoning was that we didn't want spells/abilities that removed overland adventuring from play. We also played up Shadow Walk as a scary and dangerous spell to use, a journey through the nightmare realm, or a walk by the river Styx. While we've never actually played a nasty encounter in the Shadow realm, as PCs it's a constant fear. As players it's a decision not to abuse. Oddly, it's been the DMs who fudge this rule the most often, with various temples or whoever in NPCdom calling for or supplying the Teleportation effect.

We also excluded any Divination spell that speaks directly to a deity. So low level stuff like Augry works, as does Scrying, but simply asking god to solve your problems for you seemed like cheating, so those spells were out.

Of course, our group doesn't abuse Detect Magic abilities. Our gaming style makes it hard, unless you have it always available. Too many opportunities to use it, and so few where it would pay off. You run out of Detect too fast. And again, it's a collective decision not to ruin the adventures that the various DM's have worked so hard to design for us.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Hmm You seem to have excluded all information gathering spells and abilities. Not sure I agree, but it's your game.

Our current campaign removed Teleport and it's greater kin, but left Dimension Door in place. Our reasoning was that we didn't want spells/abilities that removed overland adventuring from play. We also played up Shadow Walk as a scary and dangerous spell to use, a journey through the nightmare realm, or a walk by the river Styx. While we've never actually played a nasty encounter in the Shadow realm, as PCs it's a constant fear. As players it's a decision not to abuse. Oddly, it's been the DMs who fudge this rule the most often, with various temples or whoever in NPCdom calling for or supplying the Teleportation effect.

We also excluded any Divination spell that speaks directly to a deity. So low level stuff like Augry works, as does Scrying, but simply asking god to solve your problems for you seemed like cheating, so those spells were out.

Of course, our group doesn't abuse Detect Magic abilities. Our gaming style makes it hard, unless you have it always available. Too many opportunities to use it, and so few where it would pay off. You run out of Detect too fast. And again, it's a collective decision not to ruin the adventures that the various DM's have worked so hard to design for us.

Going back to 1e days, we had never played a paladin's Detect Evil as some sort of invisible bad guy radar. It was always (across multiple gaming groups), something where the paladin would need to get out his holy symbol and boldly invoke his deity's wisdom in determining the nature of yonder creature or person. So, while it worked nicely on a captured prisoner, it wasn't something where you walked into the local tavern and pronounced judgment on those who flashed red for evil instead of blue for good.

 

[Dark Dragon]

Hmm You seem to have excluded all information gathering spells and abilities. Not sure I agree, but it's your game.

Our current campaign removed Teleport and it's greater kin, but left Dimension Door in place. Our reasoning was that we didn't want spells/abilities that removed overland adventuring from play. We also played up Shadow Walk as a scary and dangerous spell to use, a journey through the nightmare realm, or a walk by the river Styx. While we've never actually played a nasty encounter in the Shadow realm, as PCs it's a constant fear. As players it's a decision not to abuse. Oddly, it's been the DMs who fudge this rule the most often, with various temples or whoever in NPCdom calling for or supplying the Teleportation effect.

We also excluded any Divination spell that speaks directly to a deity. So low level stuff like Augry works, as does Scrying, but simply asking god to solve your problems for you seemed like cheating, so those spells were out.

Of course, our group doesn't abuse Detect Magic abilities. Our gaming style makes it hard, unless you have it always available. Too many opportunities to use it, and so few where it would pay off. You run out of Detect too fast. And again, it's a collective decision not to ruin the adventures that the various DM's have worked so hard to design for us.

I agree, it depends very often on the style of play. If gentleman's agreement work, good! But for this special group with the banned spells, most earlier efforts to reduce the power of spell casters to potentially ruin a plot from mid- to high-levels failed more or less... In fact, the second group I'm DMing is working at epic levels without big spell restrictions, but the style of play is completely different and more relaxing because these players don't push the powers of their characters to the limit (unless forced by me to do so).

It was a hard discussion until we have agreed to deny access of most of the spells that gather information in different ways to the PCs.
Some classes like the warlock or paladin are prone to abuse or over-use of some spells, and it happened quite often that the players used all the options at their disposal, completely ignoring the DM's work to flesh out a situation (looked sometimes like game of DM vs. PCs). And this effect was magnified when we adopted our spell point system... I forgot to mention that Find the Path and Find Traps were kicked out as well for obvious reasons.

Modifying debatable spells was an option (i.e. by introducing a costly component), but that would have been quite a lot of work...

We decided instead to introduce a new NPC class that works like an "Oracle of Delphi". This class has access to all Divination spells. But it is up to the DM to give the party an information about the nearest location of an oracle. In this way, the DM can built up a quest to find an oracle that may have the answer to an important question.

When I am DMing, I focus more on the skills of the PCs. This supports role-playing in a better way than simply casting a spell that instantly resolves a problem, IMHO.

 

[Greenfield]

We currenlty have a Warlocj character whose player thought his Detect Magic ability meant that he was constantly aware of all spells and effects within 60 feet. We had to explain to him that it still required concentration, three rounds of it in fact if he wants specifics.

He wasn't happy, but it's not like we were picking on him, just asking for a little good faith on his part.

 

[Jacob Marley]

Going back to 1e days, we had never played a paladin's Detect Evil as some sort of invisible bad guy radar. It was always (across multiple gaming groups), something where the paladin would need to get out his holy symbol and boldly invoke his deity's wisdom in determining the nature of yonder creature or person. So, while it worked nicely on a captured prisoner, it wasn't something where you walked into the local tavern and pronounced judgment on those who flashed red for evil instead of blue for good.

I've never played in a game where 'evil' immediately meant 'bad guy.' Bad guy is simply the person whose agenda you are opposing. That could just as easily be a cleric of Trithereon as it is a cultist of Orcus! So, Detect [Alignment] has never been a big problem in my games.

 

[Evenglare]

I see people complain alot about black tentacles. Which ... granted can be problematic , but then you realize you need a squid or octopus tentacle to cast the spell. Why do many GMs completely ignore spell components? A wizard is going to specifically have to go out of his way to get a tentacle, and even then how long before the tentacle rots? A couple of days.... maybe? Certainly not more than a week without some sort of refrigeration.