problem with challenges...

[Eristophenes]

I came upon a very difficult problem... As DM I run a campaign, where my players are as follows:

cleric 10th level
fighter 11th level
fighter 9th level
wizard 10th level
fighter 4th level

I cannot find a way to make my adventures thrilling - they always come out of it almost without a scratch... It begins to annoy me... I want to find a way to humiliate them a little so they stop being such self confident... I want to make it original...

Understand - I don't want to kill them - that would be easy... I want to show them that they are not so powerful as they think. So I don't need an ancient red wyrm, who will win the fight with my PC, but won't eat them cause it's so old, that doesn't have teeth... I want something that will show them that there are ways to make them thrill and sweat without killing them and without presenting an uber powerful monster.

Some info about my PCs:
1. levels as shown
2. fighters rely heavily on their armors
3. all have very high will and fort saves
4. wizard lways has fireball and dimension door
5. all have somekind of protection from fire...

Please help... Give me some ideas...

 

[Drawmack]

The are on a stone bridge with no railings over a lake of lava. They encounter a Fire Giant who keeps bull rushing attempting to push them over the edge. Fall into lake and die.

The are walking in a rift that is about 20' wide with very high cliffs on either stide of them when goblins start throwing rocks down at them from botth cliffs.

Infiltrate the theives guild

Evil party, pit them against evil versions of themselves. If you really want to hit home with this make the evil party kobolds.

They wake up in the woods, whoever had last watch is missing and everything they were not wearing or sleeping on is gone. Progress this out so they only get 1st level equipment and pit them against something with a CR of 5.

The one that usually works very well is to set up a one-night adventure that is about two levels beyond the party. Then run them through it. If they are smart they won't die but if they insist on not running from anything they will. While no given encounter is enough to do a TPK by the fourth or fifth encounter they will be really weak. I usually start with something like this, just to let the PCs know right up front that the game is not easy.

 

[celtonline]

oops, wrong thread. *g*

 

[hong]

I cannot find a way to make my adventures thrilling - they always come out of it almost without a scratch... It begins to annoy me... I want to find a way to humiliate them a little so they stop being such self confident... I want to make it original...

It sounds like you're burning out. Consider getting someone else to DM for a while, and you play instead.

 

[Stalker0]

One of the items I'm about to use in my adventure from the DMG is the mirror that creates a duplicate of whoever looks into it.

Your party fighting one of its own, with access to all the magical gear the character possesses and using gurriela tactics could change the parties tune.

If you want to humiliate them, but not kill them, a good way to do that is to isolate a player's strength for a time and have them fight without it.

An antimagic field, and then have some creatures go snipping after the wizard.

Have a rustmonster eat the fighter's armor (which is cruel). Or have him go into town where weapons and armor aren't allowed, and then have a fight. Or have him fight incorporeals.

Or another good way, is to take weak ass creatures and give them templates or a very good situation for which to beat down the PCs

Everyone underestimates kobolds, slap on a few templates to one, and set up an ambush situation that will utilize the kobolds str, and make the pcs start sweating.

 

[kender]

I cannot find a way to make my adventures thrilling - they always come out of it almost without a scratch... It begins to annoy me... I want to find a way to humiliate them a little so they stop being such self confident... I want to make it original...

I suppose many DMs here suffered like you when they let the PCs grow without control

Understand - I don't want to kill them - that would be easy... I want to show them that they are not so powerful as they think. So I don't need an ancient red wyrm, who will win the fight with my PC, but won't eat them cause it's so old, that doesn't have teeth... I want something that will show them that there are ways to make them thrill and sweat without killing them and without presenting an uber powerful monster.

One of my best choices in this field is an "enemy party" (eg some brigand leaders, or an enemy country's spies, or some killers hunting them - if any of these fit in your campaign) of many lower level NPCs with a boss NPCs.

For your party I'd choose
4 Ftr 6
1 (or 2) Rog/Asn 5/3
1 Clr 8 (or 9)
1 Ftr 9
1 Sor 10

That makes a CR 14 encounter (if my rough math is correct) that should prove quite difficult, and more if they are caught while sleeping or are ambushed

Some info about my PCs:
1. levels as shown
2. fighters rely heavily on their armors
3. all have very high will and fort saves

This means they have quite low ref saves

4. wizard lways has fireball and dimension door
5. all have somekind of protection from fire...

If they are always "fire focusing" try to hit them with different elements (eg the Sor casting chain lightning or using the Energy Substitution Feat).

And (as a last counsel) try to surprise them (your players )

 

[Speaks With Stone]

For maximum humility, use some weanie monster like goblins or kobolds and then give them various levels in sorceror/rogue/etc. Have them attack from advantageous circumstances (maybe the characters are invading their trap laden warren. The kobolds have lots of tunnels that allow them to hit and fade and drop webs and so forth on the crowd. The tunnels are small enough for a single wide lighting bolt to scour. Keep the kobolds moving and hiding around corners so that they can make called actions when the players round the corners. Make sure the kobolds have some magic item that allows them to conjur something large to cover an escape in case things go bad.

It worked against us (albeit at lower levels). This works especially well if your players don't have dark vision and they have to carry some form of light around.

Enemy spellcasters with lots of minions who fight smart are very difficult to beat, especially if they get the homecourt advantage. Be sure they have some dispells available to cancel the players best spells, too. When the enemy spell casters outnumber the player casters, they should have designated counterspellers and designated combat casters.

 

[Greybar]

2. fighters rely heavily on their armors

Rust Monsters!

Particularly if the speculation about the PCs getting too much night stuff is true. Rust Monsters are listed at CR3 and the Reflex save to yank your stuff back before it rusts is DC20.

If DC20 would be too easy for them (you mentioned high saves), then make part of advancing the Rust Monsters an increase in the DC. For instance, DC = 15 + HD would fit the baseline 5 HD Rust Monsters, and two 15 HD rust monsters (Large Aberration) would be DC30.

Perhaps an enemy spellcaster, angered at the heros victories about a 6mo to a year back, cultivated these monsters and will be sending them in alongside some hired LE monks. The rust monsters will be buffed with Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength, and Magic Fang before they go in...

John

 

[Arnix]

Tactic I have used in the past.

Wizard NPC
-slow for the party
-specialized and spell focus/gsp for slow school (transmutation I believe)
-Dispel magics for the party (caster level is save, so bonuses don't matter)

Rust monsters (dominated), 4 should do the trick
-Illusioned to look like trolls
-Mass Hasted
-Stone Skinned
-Resist Elements Fire (for pesky party mage)
-Fly

You could also make them fiendish rust monsters instead of normal ones, thus providing a good bit of naturla immunity to the fire, and only adding +2 to the CR (now what a 5? 6?).

This only takes a couple of scrolls, that any wizard of appropriate level could/would make.

Rust monsters are low CR, so negligible on the xp chart. The wizard should be at least 1 level above the party (11th or 12 would be nice), and improved invisible.

The wizard really does little asside from buffing the "trolls" just like the party wizard would do to the rest of the party.



Second tactiv (also used in the past).
Red dragon, illusioned to appear black. Or vice verca. The party should "know" in advance what color the dragon is (appears to be). Thus they prepare, and upon entering the lair pass through a wall of dispelling.

Simple tactic, that leaves much of he parties preparations wasted.



Enjoy.

 

[hammymchamham]

since you want to hand them there butts, but don't want to kill them, use Subdual damage, specifically though Subdual Substitution (Tomb and Blood). Throw a few subdual substituded spells their way, and knock them out. Afterwards, they wake up (hours later? days later? who knows) in a 4 sided room with 4 doors, all of their equipment is missing. The room they are in is the center of a maze. There is one exit. Since the wizard is without his spellbook, they won't be teleporting away (unless he has mastery), but if he somehow is able to "relearn" it, just have the maze be protected by some kind of force that causes that spell to fail.

The wizard (sorceror, or group of magic users?) meets the PC's at the exit of the maze... now you can make these guy(s) into what ever you want, a group of evil NPCs out to kill the PCs. A group who is testing the PCs for something (which is what I am using)... or whatever

This is how I am starting my upcomming campaign, except I'm not taking their equipment away, since they're starting at lvl 5, and I am using a Wizard 5/Elemental Savant(Air) 8 (13th level) with some grunts to soak up early damage.

A few subdual subtituted cone of colds (or any elemental spells) could help knock them out. Plus they have low reflex saves (none are from classes with that as a good save) and none have evasion or improved evasion, so no need to worry about saves for no damage. Just get a few high level spell casters to ensure that the PCs will be knocked out.