problem with using knowledge skills to gain information about monsters

Longbow

First Post
From the SRD: I"n many cases, you can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster’s HD. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster.

For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information."

As a DM I find this rule problematic. The level 10 Wizard player in my campaign regulary asks for information pretty much every time a monster appears. He has pumped a ton of skill points in knowledge skills and in some areas has a really high modifier (for example about +23 in the planes). This way he can identify most monsters and can get information about weaknesses, etc easily.

He gained those bonues fair and square (Grey Elf, feats, wizard class, high INT) and the rules allow him to do this. So why is this a problem for me as the DM?

If I understand the rule correctly I have to give him some useful information. Now what is useful inormation and what do I tell the player? Do I have to tell him important things like the monster is immune to cold, what is his bad save, what spell-like abililtes does he use, what kind of DR? Or do I state mundane or obvious things which aren´t very useful to know like darkvision, forms of movement (fly)?

Should it be some kind of balance and a mixture of both? I find that hard to decide, especially if the PC has a really high result on his check. I believe it´s not good for the game if the player gets to know things like what is the bad save of the monster. That was one thing the player asked me last time. Where´s the fun/balance in that if the player(s) get to know important abilities of the monster? Isn´t that boring and too easy? If a PC has that really high result than I could just give him the statblock. That´s how I feel. And on top of it I feel it holds up the game. Encounter starts, knowledge roll. Every time.

I don´t want to limit the player for having a great skill in knowledge but to me it´s annoying (no/less surprises about monsters, too much valuable information that a player shouldn´t have, IMO).
 

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WotC is putting out Knowledge charts for the MM monsters in its website, and since MM3 they have included those in monster descriptions.

As a guideline, give away more "iconic" information first. I mean, everybody knows red dragons breathe fire and are immune to it. Not as many people know it is specially affected by cold, or that an adult dragon (or older) can cast spells.
 

This is my system:

Knowdedge([monster]): the DC to identify a monster with the relevant Knowledge skill is 10 + it’s CR. You recall a fact about the monster if you make it, and additional facts for every five points you make the roll. If you are successful, you can continue making knowledge checks each round afterwards to recall additional facts about the creature until you fail. Facts will come in the order of: monster name, type, subtype, & most notable attack; followed by: most notable defense; most notable vulnerability; next notable attack; defense; and vulnerability; and so on. Failing by one to four points reveals the monster's type.
 

To follow on for Whimsical, I have started to work out the system that WotC uses for it's knowledge skills:

DC Indicates
10 + HD Identify the creature by name, provide all type traits (vision, weapon/armour proficiencies, whether they eat, sleep and breathe), subtype traits (unusual movement styles [fly/swim], immunities and resistances, HP levels [poor/fair/good], good saves).
15 + HD Specific creature abilities: Speeds

Hardly finished by may help get you stated.

I'd also tend to term things in a non-mechanical way where possible:
Good FORT/bad REF saves is a hardy but slow critter.
High HP die can take a hard beating.
No crit mens no discernable anatomy.

For me (and it appears so for Whimsical) an order for what comes for a given roll is important and allows for consistency.

Also, note that you cannot reroll for a critter until you add another skill point into the appropriate slot, so rolling each time you encounter the critter is not on until you get another level.

And also remember that just because the player/PC now knows something, he still has to tell the others but has only a limited time to do so in each round. He will have to decide what the rest of the party needs to know NOW.
 

If they roll more than a couple facts, I just give them the book and let them look at the entry. "Congratulations, you're rather familiar with this species."
 

DreadArchon said:
If they roll more than a couple facts, I just give them the book and let them look at the entry. "Congratulations, you're rather familiar with this species."

That is my policy when the character beats the 10+HD knowledge roll by 10 or more. The Bard did that today and got to read the Monster Manual during play . . .
 

I think that if player has invested alot of his skillpoints on knowledge skills he should get something out of it. I'd say you should some useful information. What you think is useful depends on situation. If player has some specialty it shoulda first relate to that, at least quite often. That would be the thing he shoulda remember as its most useful to him

Forexample I played evoker: elemental savant (cold) once and I felt it's appropriate if i know if they are specially vulnerable to cold or resistant to it. And also saves are quite obvious useful information for mage. But then again some more visible things like attacks or defenses might be somehow linked to appearance of the mob and therefore easy to remember when you see it.

-Dracandross
 

I typically give out "useful" information based on what is most iconic about a monster, whether or not the player already knows it. After all, the purpose of the skill is to remind you of things as much as it is to give you new information. A good example is the medusa.

1st Piece of Information: Medusas can turn you to stone with a glance.
2nd: Medusas have snakes on their head with poisonous bites.
3rd: Medusas are charismatic and often try to entrap their enemies with disguises or honeyed words.
4th: Medusas are agile and many are accomplished archers.

I have occassionally known DMs who give out very specific information, such as the exact DR of a monster, but I tend to such things on how iconic it is for that monster. Here is an example of a fairly iconic D&D monster with DR and how I would give out useful information.

1st: Lycanthropes can take the form of humanoids, animals, or a powerful hybrid of the two.
2nd: Lycanthropes can only be wounded with silvered weapons.
3rd: Lycanthrope bites are infectious, causing a kind of acquired lycanthropy in bite victims. The bites can only be cured with belladona, a weed that is itself poisonous.
4th: Lycanthropes have pretenatural animal-like senses and feral will that make them difficult to surprise and control.

Remember, just because a piece of information is useful does not mean that the player does not already know it about the monster already. For example, most players already know a thing or two about trolls (use fire!), but a player who only gets a DC 18 Knowledge (nature) check to identify a troll isn't entitled to anything more than that. Always describe the most iconic or well-known abilities of the creature in question first. And always use general descriptions, rather than exact game mechanics. Tell the player that the creature is incredibly resistant to fire rather than saying it has fire resistance 10. Say the monster is very cunning and alert rather than saying it has +17 to Bluff and +10 to Spot. Say the monster is lumbering and slow-moving rather than saying it has a Dexterity score of 4.
 

How about... give the player the Monster Manual at the relevant page. He gets a number of seconds equal to his skill roll to look at it.

If he exceeds that time, then he is taking a standard action to think about it....
 


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